Pro-FYROM, American NGO Issues ‘Macedonian Visa’ with Alexander the Great

The "Macedonian" Visa Card depicting Alexander the Great

It has been a few years since the new Visa card, ‘Macedonian Visa,’ was introduced in the US. In a program to collect donations, the NGO United Macedonian Diaspora through Visa CardPartner Inc designed the Affinity Credit Card which comes in different designs, one depicting Alexander the Great.

The dispute between FYROM and Greece for the name Macedonia dates back to 1991 when FYROM gained independence from Yugoslavia and started calling itself Macedonia, a region in Northern Greece.  Such propaganda moves by FYROM’s allies  trying to falsify history by issuing a card depicting Alexander the Great as their king, definitely do not help resolve the name dispute.

The NGO, which lobbies for FYROM in the USA and abroad, states in its website:

“There’s a new, convenient way for people who support United Macedonian Diaspora to fund the nonprofit group’s work.”

When a cardholder activates the card, United Macedonian Diaspora receives $50. Then once a month for the life of the program, United Macedonian Diaspora receives a check for a portion of every dollar that every cardholder charges.

According to its website, United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) was founded in 2004, as an international non-governmental organization addressing the interests and needs of ‘Macedonians’ and ‘Macedonian’ communities throughout the world.

The core of the disagreement is the use of the name Macedonia (part of northern Greece) as well as other symbols of Greek culture by FYROM. The most significant of these symbols is Alexander the Great, the Greek King of Macedon who founded one of the most important empires of the ancient world.

In 2011, the government of FYROM unveiled a major statue of Alexander the Great in the central square of the nation’s capital, Skopje, causing anger in Greece.



  1. According to the self-anointed “human rights” apologists of the former Yugoslavians there is no evidence of irredentism! Other than the endless “United Macedonia” references, usurpation of Greek history, adoption of the name Macedonians, and constant insinuations that Macedonia is “occupied” and “divided” (all done on a state sponsored level), they would be right.

    As history has shown, Greeks were right all along to claim that their use of the name Macedonia was an attempt at irredentism. The evasion of FYROM’s apologists to denounce blatantly obvious irredentism by the Skopians shows very real bigotry toward Greeks *and an attempt to hide their shame for supporting the Skopians)

    Now that the Skopians (and their apologists) have shown their true colors, we should accept nothing less the complete removal of recognition of the name “Macedonia” from state name, condemnation of FYROM, and apology to the Greek people. Anything less is unprincipled cowardice. Those that continue to support FYROM’s irredentism we should consider as morally complicit in an act of war against the Greek people.

    • Greece has the right to macedonia and all slavic people have the right to macedonia. Forget ancient world it was never alive. We were not alive 3000 years ago. Its all politics to destroy both countries. Greeks and slavs were under byzantine roof. Cyril methodius was greek who adopted the slavic language. He made the slavs and they settled in macedonia. So both countries can share borders peacefully. Ancient is our monuments of memory which we never saw. But orthodoxy is still alive today.

      • Oh look a new id supporting Skopians. Tell your propaganda to the patronizing antihellenic bigots that supported you Skopian troll.

        If your Skopians relatives don’t care about ancient history as they once claimed, they should have no problem changing names and pulling down giant Alexander statue. What’s the delay? Are you that ashamed of your ethnic Bulgarian heritage that you need unnecessary conflict?

      • ‘The idea that Alexander the Great belongs to us was at the mind of some outsider groups only. These groups were insignificant in the first years of our independence. But the big problem is that the old Balkan nations have been learned to legitimize themselves through their history. In the Balkans to be recognized as a nation you need to have history of 2,000 to 3,000 years old. Since you (Greece ) forced us to invent a history, we did invent it.’

        – FYROM Foreign Minister Denko Maleski (1991 to 1993)

      • Wrong,Cyril and Methodius were true Macedonians,Alexander of Macedonia a true Macedonian,his Empire was Macedonian.Greek history in reality is Macedonian.Greece never existed before 1829.Athens Sparta Theba were City States,not Greek country,CAPISH?

        • Yes George everyone is FYROMESE. How could you not know that????

          Even all the worlds creatures have originated in FYROM – even Antartica’s penguins…

    • Leftist censorship,who gave you the right to change my God given name?
      The bullshit you have been writing is an idiotic notion.Vre palio pedo,kitaxe ti graphan i arhei san ton Plutarchus,Isocrates ke Demosthenes,ohi esis pou den xerete na sikosete the vrahia sas.You are so discusting,you don’t even know your own history.
      Your president is of Albanian discent,your Foreign Minister Venizelos is a Turk that pretend as you do to be a none-existent “Greek”.No wonder the world is laughing at you,even your best financial supporter-Germany who is trying to teach your minister history.You have no fu&*%shame,no wonder John Adams described you as corrupted in your morals to such a degree,as to be faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage…!!!
      Read Black Athena by Bernal Black,Greece without Columns,For the Name of Macedonia by T.Skinalis and the interview of Mitsotakis on this subject.Take a look at the “Ei Makedonoikei glossa stin apographoi ploitheismou tou 1920 by Dimitri Lithozoou.
      Educate yourself first before you shoot your mouth.Before you engage the gear,put the key in the ignition first=put your brain in gear before your mouth opens!!!

      • It is not your name. It is name you petty identify thieves took on in the 20 century as a form of irredentism. Historians around the globe agree that in the early 20th century the majority of Slavs in what is today FYROM self-identified as ethnic Bulgarians.

        You are such a sniveling lying POS you can’t even tell history in your own lifetime correctly. Only a few years ago your elected government were assuring everyone that you were not related to anicent Macedonians. The very fact your apologists try to downplay your obvious identity change into ancient macedonians and irredentism destroyed any last shred of moral and intellectual credibility they had.

        Ultra nationalist like you need to educate yourself beyond the insane ramblings of big fat lying Risto and brain damaged boxer Gruevski.

        “Prior to the
        creation of a Macedonian republic in 1944,most Macedonian immigrants viewed
        themselves as ethnically Bulgarian and often referred to themselves as
        Macedonian-Bulgarians or simply Bulgarians.While immigration records failed to
        list Macedonians as separate category,approximately three-quarters of those
        listed as Bulgarians were‍ from the regions of Kostur and Bitola in
        Macedonia.” – James R. Grossman,
        University of Chicago

        • First of all,I am born in the occupied Aegean Macedonia.I am Macedonian as my great,great,great grand fathers.
          As far as the Bulgarians are concerned,they came to Macedonia for the first time in 1872.Their reason coming to the area was their concern on the Greek influence in the area.The Bulgarians started to operate their own schools as did the Greeks beforehand.
          There were three of our neighbors who fought over Macedonian territory,Greece,Serbia and Bulgaria.You have no brain to think on your own,the question to you is;why in 1829 Macedonia did not become independent together with Greece,but left for another 100 years under Ottoman rule?Why is Aegean Macedonia Greek according to you,but not Vardar,Pirin and small Prespa?Why were Serbia and Bulgaria claim Macedonia belongs to them as you do?Why do you continue with your idiotic ideas that the Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia are Greeks but Republic of Macedonia are Bulgars.My friend and your thick skull, we are one and the same ethnics,with same religion,language,culture and all it takes to be a nation.As I said before,you are Albanians,Turks,Vlahs and Macedonians in modern “Greece.You are not pure Greeks,only in your dreams!

          • You are full of sh-t. If you claim to be from the one and only Macedonia in Greece, then your great great grandfather was almost certainly an ethnic BULGARIAN. There are countless records showing Slavs from that era in Skopje and Macedonia self-identifying as Bulgarians NOT Macedonians (“Macedonian” in a regional not ethnic context which fanatics like you hide from the world)

            Indeed many people did fight over Macedonia… including the indigenous Macedonians of Greek descent who LIBERATED their homeland from occupying Ottoman thugs. Unfortunately your ethnic Bulgarian ancestors lost their marbles to hating Greeks. Now inch-by-inch you ultra nationalist frauds claim to be related to ancient Macedonians. The irony of the situation (that has flown under the radar of both fanatics like you and your slimey antigreek apologists) is by now claiming to be related to ancient Macedonians — you are effectively claiming to be the “real” Greeks!

            Not a single ethnic Macedonian exists in the former ancient Paeonia. Not one. Not amount of propaganda, recognition or evasion by anti-Greek bigots will change the Greek writing on ancient Macedonians artifacts.

            FYROM country and ethnic group built entirely on fraud and hatred of Greeks. The only way to fix this issue is the complete destruction of FYROM. It should be divide between Bulgarians and Albanians who make up virtually its entire population. In return for Greek support both Albanian and Bulgaria publicly agreeing not to use name Macedonia and declare the name Greek cultural patrimony. Win. Win. Win.

          • Leftist,If I were you,I would be ashamed of my self to write such bullshit like you.Obviously,you don’t know your history.You are in the same circle as Papulias and Venizelos,one Arvanitis,the other a Turk.I class you in the same class.

          • LMAO. Earth to your brain. The modern Turks aren’t Turks troll! The original Turks were asiatic. The modern Turks are assimilated locals. If anything, due to Ottoman apostasy laws (which made it a death penalty to convert to a religion other Islam) Turks are related to Greeks.

            Tell your BS narratives to the anti-Greek bigots that supported you obvious frauds and now unethically are trying to downplay your sudden identity quick change into ancient Macedonians and irredentism. There is not a single ethnic Macedonian in the former Vardar Yugoslavia. Not one. A country and ethnic group built entirely on conscious fraud and hate.

            “We are Slavs. There’s no connection between us and Alexander the Great. ” – Kiro Gligorov, President of FYROM

            ‘We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like

            Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.’ – FYROM´s Ambassador to Canada Gyordan Veselinov, Ottawa Citizen Newspaper, February 24 1999

            ‘We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great.’ – FYROM’S Ambassador Ljubica Acevshka, speech to US representatives, Washington DC, January 22 1999

          • How’s the combined 50% Albanian & Muslim population of your Skopje working out for you? Venizelos lineage is Maniot and Cretan, go back to sleep Mongoslavbanian. Don’t worry, one of the new statues you built of Alexander the Slav will come to life and save you guys at the last minute.

          • Boo hoo I ma an Aegean Macdonaioa so fukkin what??
            Your are an Aegean ‘Slavic’ Macedonian.
            That does not mean that there were not Greeks in Aegean Macedonia.
            It is proven by what they left behind.
            Sine ancien times, through the Roman period, Byzantium, & Ottoman Empire….Greek was spoken and used as a written language in Macedoania.
            So was the Slavic language…which we all know arrived there with the Slavic incursions circa 700 AD.
            700 ad malakovski!!
            Doesn’t that ring a few alarm bells for you??

          • Ausgreek,are you that stupid.We speak the slavic language,so does Russia,Ukraine,Serbia,Bulgaria,Bielarus Poland,does that make them Slavs.Is Brasil Portugal,is Iraq Syria,or Saudi Arabia.Are they all Syrians.Would you call them Arab-Syrians or slavo Russians?
            from 338BC City States were under Macedonias yoke up to the time the Romans came,then the Ottomans,Greece was none existent till 1927.

          • Malakovski…. Russia,Ukraine,Serbia,Bulgaria,Belarus Poland are known as Slavic nations by virtue of their language.
            Look to them as that is where your forbears camme from.
            Is Brasil Portugal??
            Brazil was founded by Portugal and that is why they speak Portugese malakaaaaaaa!!
            That is why when Alexander went around the world he instilled his mother tongue malakkaaaaaa.

            No one creates an empire with some one else’s language…get it???
            ‘Is Iraq Syria,or Saudi Arabia.Are they all Syrians??

            No but they all speak Arabic….they are Arabic nations …find a better argue yiyu are Dettingen smashed up just like your Grandfather got smashed by mine after WW2 HAHAHAHAHA!!

            ”Greece was none existent till 1927.”

            Yes but Greek culture 7 langaue was not.
            Greec is jys teh mofern mabe for a Greek spekaing; cultuatlly Greek terrirory.
            But Greeks have have been around for 3000 years and have left tehri evedenbs from Russia , Croie , Turlew Siclcu ,

          • You are wasting your trying to explain to thickos and fake Bulgarophone Slavs that they are a totally insignificant little tribe.Greeks ignore them.They are not even an indigenous race,They consist of gypsies Turks Albanians and a small number of Bulgarophones.They have Bulgarian names Bulgarian surnames and they look Bulgarians.They have a dysanalogy of body and head which is of abnormal size and this is why they are so dim.They live in a very small and mountainous country half the size of Thessaloniki.Historical evidence and the worlds Academia declare them imposters and they laugh in their face.Their country is infamous because of their notoriously dirty toilets.Most of them immigrate to Canada and Australia to carry on the profession of their forefathers which is toilet cleaning and they do a lousy job of it.Soon will be taken over by the Albanians and then they better pray the Bulgarians will be charitable enough to give them hospitality.Meanwhile the Greeks and Bulgarians with their vetoes will keep them out of Europe and NATO till doomsday.

          • This language that you are using “occupied”, “yoke” does not help you. It is not supported by archaeology and are you actually saying you do not recognise current European borders as defined by international treaties and international law? Sad…

          • Yes, the European countries you are naming are Slavic. Identity is about native language and customs mostly. As long as you speak a Bulgarian language and keep Bulgarian customs it means you consider yourself and others will see you as Bulgarian. It really is as simple as that. Why are you stirring up things and starting racial conversations? Are you ashamed to be Bulgarian, or anything Slavic if you like, and are trying to come up with a new invented identity for yourself that nobody else sees and that’s why you are having to explain your theory all the time?

          • “This Government considers talk of Macedonian “nation”, Macedonian “Fatherland”, or Macedonia “national consciousness” to be unjustified demagoguery REPRESENTING NO ETHNIC NOR POLITICAL REALITY, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece.”
            — U.S STATE DEPARTMENT Foreign Relations Vol. VIII Washington D.C.Circular Airgram(868.014/26 Dec. 1944)

          • ”Being still pagans, the Slavs did not have their own letters, but read and communicated by means of tallies and sketches. After their baptism they were forced to use Roman and Greek letters in the transcription of their Slavic words but these were not suitable … At last, God, in his love for mankind, sent them St. Constantine the Philosopher, called Cyril, a learned and upright man, who composed for them thirty-eight letters, some (24 of them) similar to the Greek, but some (14 of them) different, suitable to express Slavic sounds.”

            ‘An Account of Letters’ by Chernorizets Hrabar who was a Bulgarian monk, scholar and writer who worked at the Preslav Literary School at the end of the 9th and the beginning of the 10th century, developing Medieval Bulgarian literature and spreading Old Church Slavonic.

          • “WE ARE SLAVS who came to this area in the 6th century AD. We are NOT DESCENDANTS of the ancient Macedonians.” — [FYROM’S President Mr Kiro Gligorov, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, pg 35.]

            “We are NOT RELATED to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian. There is some confusion about the identity of the people of this country.”
            — [Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM’S Ambassador to Canada, in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, 24 February, 1999.]

            “We DO NOT CLAIM TO BE DESCENDANTS of Alexander the Great. We are Slavs and we speak a Slav language.” — [FYROM’S Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka, 22 January, 1999]

      • “In the 1990s,Macedonians speak a language codified in 1946,spoken by less than two million people, and with a very slender literature. They are members of an Orthodox Church whose authority was established by a socialist political regime in 1968.They are heirs to a 1903 revolution that until the 1940s was described by almost all sources as being Bulgarian.”

        – “The history of the Balkan Peninsula” Ferdinand Schevill page 432

      • ”who gave you the right to change my God given name?”
        God didn’t give it to you Krste Misirkov did hahahaha.

      • Venizelos is of Maniot and Cretan ancestry on his paternal side, go back to sleep lunatic.

        • The comments in this discussion are offensive and disrespectful towards the Hellenic civilisation. History teaches us that the Hellenic civilisation included Spartan, Athenian, Theban, Macedonia, Asian Minorian, Italy which included Roman. It was first the Macedonians and later the Romans who joined all the Hellens together which lasted from 331bc _ 1453ad.
          The Ottoman (Osmanli) period was full of Hellens who were Sultans or Governmental officials, elite soldiers (JANISSARIES).





  2. The “human rights” supporters of FYROM (as well as foreign media and politicians) now all play stupid as the Skopians turn into “ancient Macedonians” and abuse the name to encourage irredentism (as we warned them in good faith 20 years ago would happen but were mocked). FYROM’s apologists are so dishonest and prejudicial towards Greeks, they can’t even observe FYROM obvious propaganda and irredentism in their own time. Anti-Greek bigots the lot of them. They do this because they are trying to morally absolve themselves of their mistaken recognition.

    Ergo — do not trust any narrative their apologists say about ancient history or the ethics of the situation unless they retract recognition of FYROM, apologize to Greeks, and condemn FYROM for their behavior. There are no excuses left to downplay Fyroms hostile propaganda (much less blame Greeks for it rather than those that ridiculously called obvious Slav propagandists “ethnic” Macedonians)

  3. Allegedly “Greek” Reporter needs to write stories about FYROM every day not bi-annually. (and whomever supports them)

    Writing stories condemning Greek racists nearly every day (which is hugely excessive) while virtually ignoring massive racism being directed at Greeks is an inversion of reason. If we do not speak up for ourselves, whom exactly is going to do it for us?

    From YROM’s dishonerable “human rights” and foreign press supporters? The same dishonorable antihellenic bigots that now disgustingly play stupid as the Skopians narrate themselves in ancient Macedonians, narrate Greeks out of ethnic existence, and are attempting to annex 1/3 of our country?

  4. The Greek idiocity is here and alive.Yunanistan by claiming Alexander the Great as their own is totally idiotic notion! Greek history is based on a myth that was started by Prince Otto,not by ancient historians.Please,educate yourselves before you write bull on internet.Alexanders Empire was Macedonian Empire.More than 50 thousand Greeks fought against Alexander in Asia.
    Had Alexander been “”Greek”,Thebes would not have been destroyed and every living soul killed by the Macedonian general Pithos.Since you pretend to know history,tell the readers why that happened.

    Republic of Macedonia is the successor of the name Macedonia.Macedonia was illegally partitioned in 1913 by the Big Powers of France and Prussia.One part of that geographic land received its independence in 1991,therefore,Macedonia continued with its own name MACEDONIA and it will continue with its own name for centuries to come!

    • Dude you are as big a retard as they come thinking Macedonians are of your bulgarian stock! You dont know anything about history and you tell others to learn,  pathetic!  Ever heard of peleponesian war? Of course you haven’t you pseudo historian! I bet you did not even know Arrian named several of the mercenaries you talk about as Macedonians! 

      People in Afghanistan have more claim to macedonian name than you slavic intruders who partly chased away the true greek macedonian descendents from their native land! Even krste mirksov admitted that your identity was made up as a politic ploy before he died and all your Illinden heroes have written inthier own words that they were bulgarians! Truth hurts but you are never going to be Macedonians, they are living in Greece speaking greek with greek names as it has always been in macedonia since the beginning!

      • Polybius 9.37,the name you go by does fit you,and here is why;Quote from Polybius”speakers of same language”with which the Greek fellow wanted to use as proof that ancient Macedonians spoke the same language as the ancient Greeks and thus,they must be classed as “Greeks”.

        Now,these same Greeks are burning the candle from the other end and want to argue the point but this time,since it suits their purpose,in the opposite direction:namely that “linguistic criteria are not only insufficient to denote ethnic naunces in the Balkans but they can be misleading”.(Thank you Gandeto)

        It looks like you have no shame to fabricate history,and this is why Gandeto continued with the folloeing statement;”

        A lesson learned:you cannot burn the candle from both ends and expect not to get burned.
        Again,refering to your original statement above,I could not have said it better myself;you fellows are true students of the art of manipulation.As a matter of fact,you have not only mastered the art of manipulating the text but have brought it to another level;the level of highest distinction.Like so many other things that you Greeks have invented,this,the art of fabrication,is deservedly yours.You have won the argument hands down.”

        In 1783 John Adams characterized the Greeks as “corrupted in their morals to such a degree,as to be faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage…”

        In 1925 at the League of Nations the Greek representative introduced the Abecedar printed for the Macedonian school children.The Serbs and Bulgarians protested,but the High ranking Greek representative Vasilis dendramis responded by defending the Macedonian language as being”neither Bulgarian nor Serbian but an independent language”!
        He listed various linguists and linguistic maps as evidence to support his claim of the independence of the Macedonian language.

        The high ranking Greek official representing the Greek State not only recognized the existence of the Macedonian identity,but openly defended and supported it.
        Once again,the present Greek propaganda is a true falsification oh historical lies.

        Yes,our names have been forcefully changed to Greek souding during the Metaxas dictatorship 1936-40,I know,I am born in our occupied Aegean Macedonia.In my home town we spoke Macedonian,not Greek,maybe you could tune your radio to Ovcharani(Melitis), Voden(Edessa) radio you will hear the Macedonian language.

        About history knowledge,I am not Greek but I do understand what Demosthenes wrote for the fallen Hellens at Chaeronea and what Isocrates letter states to Philip,and historian Plutarch said abou the Macedonia language and Eumenes.The problem is,it is written in Greek,but you don’t understand the language it is written.

        For the record,Alexander the Great spoke the proto/slav language,it has been proven by Oxford and Madrid Universities.The slavic language did not come to Macedonia,it went outward.The fabrications of slavs coming to this area in the 6th century is a Greek farce!

        • Haha you speak of polybius but you do not know what he wrote! Google my name and you will se what the Macedonians and other greeks thought of each other! Same blood they say! You are a pathetic man trying to link your bulgarian self to our glorious greek past but it will never work.

          There exists no evidence whatsoever that Macedonians would speak another language than greek, but tell yourself that to sleep better at night you descendent of a bulgar and paeonian! Why don’t you look up Damon of thessaloniki and see what this Macedonian man incraved forever into stone? The truth will shock your Bulgarian heart!

          • polybius 9.37 I will start with four questions for you to answer if you know history as you claim;
            a)Can you explain the meaning of Isocrates letter to Philip
            b)The epitaph written by Demosthenes in 338bc
            c)Why Plutarch made a language distinction on the Macedonian language.
            d)Why did Alexander ask Philotas if he will speak in his mother tongue during the trial for treason.
            Polibius,(i erotises ine poli aples,ean ise omorfomenos os esi mu les den tha ehis provlima na apandisis horis tin politiki,mono istorika opos ine grammena stin istoria.)I think you understand what I am asking you,no bias in answering politically.

            I am asking you for your answers with no politics in it because of the following that appeared in the German News Papers during the Greek Minister for tourism Olga Kefalogianni visit to Germany.
            “Foreign diplomats have been increasingly frustrated with Greek attempts to fabricate facts,come up with some sort of new history by ammending maps of dozens of its own history books who in the past showed their neighbor as Macedonia.All of it is for ‘reprogramming’ purposes of the young local population”.

        • ”the slavic language did not come to Macedonia,it went outward.”

          Oh yes ..the great myth of the Proto-Slav culture being born in Macedonia & then to civilizing the world with Slavic nonsense.
          Why didn’t Alexander spread this language in his conquest??
          Why is there no record of this language in the ancient times??
          The coming of the Slavs is documented.

          • continuation.
            In summation…Ethnic,yes todays Ethnic Macedonians cannot possibly be of the old Mediteranean substratum if they were Slavs arriving in the Balkans in 6th century AD as the 19th century Western construct asserts!!
            Todays ethnic Macedonians are authocthonous to Macedonia,it is very simple!Their language,unintelligable to the ancient Greeks,was a form of proto Macedonian/Slav,which then spread outward,becoming more complex as it moved outward,becoming more complex as it moved further away from Macedonia.Countless proto Macedonian letters unearthed on the territory of the Republic of Macedonia,and no doubt in Pirin and Aegean Macedonia,though the respective occupiers have no doubt concealed them from the world because it does not fit their lies,attest to this fact!”
            The last paragraph fits the reason as to why the former museum curator in Athens was fired for asking to show the artifacts discovered in Kutlesh(Vergina) and elsewhere in the form as they were discovered.

            This part is the second part from Mario Alinei.

          • Talk is cheap my friend.
            You have no proof to offer us regarding this Language that the ancient Macedonians were supposed to have spoken.
            Please feel free to supply links.
            Ask yourself why it was necessary for 2 monks to create a written language for your ancestors based on the Greek alphabet over a 1000 years after Alexander had lived??
            You mean to tell me that Alexander or his successors who were world powers could not have commissioned someone one to write SOMETHING in their unique non-Greek native tongue….hahahahaha…that is laughable!!

          • Ausgreek,I will proof to you that you are an,..Ok,I won’t go that far,just read slowly so you will grasp the meaning of the statement.
            Demosthenes,the great Athenian statesman and orator,spoke of the Macedonian king Philip II as:

            “…not only no Greek,nor related to the Greeks,but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honours,but a pestilent knave from Macedonia,whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave.”(Third Philippic,31)
            Read Demosthenes epitaph written in 338 BC.
            Read the letter of Isocrates to Philip.
            Further reason to dispell your thesis is the following;
            The Macedonians are about to pass judgement upon you;I wish to know whether you will use their native tongue in addressing them.”Therupon Philotas replied:”Besides the Macedonians there are many present who,I think,will more easily understand what I shall say if I use the same language which you have employed,for no other reason,I suppose than in order that your speech might be understood by the greater number.”Then said the king:”Do you not see how Philotas loathes even the language of his fatherland?For he alone disdains to learn it.But let him by all means speak in whatever way he desires,provided that you remember that he holds our customs in as much abhorrence as our language.”(Quintus Curtius Rufus,History of Alexander the Great of Macedon,VI.ix.34-36).
            Remember,this was happening in Asia under greater amount of people of diferent ethnos.

            Ancient Macedonians used translators to communicate with Hellens.
            Historical evidence is clear that ancient Macedonians were not Hellens,rather a distinct people who spoke their own language.

            I just read one comment on this site claiming you are Turks.Take a look.I could not believe my eyes!!Are you claiming the same as Otto who wanted to glorify himself as the king over ancient people?.You have the same dreams?Wake up my friend!

          • You ignorant man.
            Why… oh why is every ancient artefact found in Macedonian tombs etc written in Greek??
            Not just the royal tombs but even the common people.
            Why oh why did Alexander choose to use Greek as the Lingua Franca of his empire??
            Who has ever done that in history??
            Many Romans spoke Greek as well….as a second language.
            We all know that Latin was their language and the lang age they promoted as the Lingua Franca.
            Malakovski..either the Macedonians were indeed Greek…or they were the stupidest people on Gods earth to do all they did in GREEK.
            Another example:
            Did the British Empire spread French or English throughout the world??
            Many well educated Englishmen spoke French…the then language of diplomacy…but it was their mother tongue they loved.
            WAKE UPI fool!!

          • Because the Greek language was more advanced.
            As for the ancient findings,read Mario Alinei,I have posted it.Read it on this site.

          • Forget about these philosophies and conspiracy theories, Just read some archaeological books that draw conclusions based on findings and not look for clues to support a theory devised in an office somewhere by an ex-Yugoslav historian.

      • Notice how all the foreigners that claim to be for “human rights’ always go missing when it times to defending Greece against FYROM’s now obvious state propaganda and hate speech against Greece.

    • Otto & the Thebes massacre??
      Is that all you can offer to back up your a week argument.
      On our side we have the countless historical artefacts dug up with Greek inscriptions….the testimony of ancient historians, writers; Greek & non- Greek alike…the fact that everywhere Alexander went became a Greek speaking town /city.
      The fact that the people currently living what was once conquered ‘ Macedonian’ territory ( ie Egypt) regard Alexander as a Greek.

      • Ausgreek & leftist censorship,Looks like you still believe Atlas still holds the Earth on his shoulder,so the story goes on as the “Greek”mythology.Your whole “Greek”history is based on mythology,the only thing is you improved on fabrications.

        “The project of setting at liberty the whole country of ancient Greece,Macedonia and Illyricum,and erecting independent Republics in those famous seats,however splendid it may appear in speculation,is not likely to be seriously entertaind by the two Empires,because it is impracticable.The Greeks of this day,although they are said to have imagination and ingenuity,are corrupted in their morals to such a degree,as to be a faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage,as
        well as of those principles of honor and virtue,without which nations can have no confidence in one another,nor be trusted by others”.

        “John Adams,one of US founding fathers,in a statement written back on July 14th 1783 to the first US State Secretary Robert Livingston,clearly states he wanted to see Macedonia as well as Greece independent from Ottoman rule.

        Unfortunately for some Balkan nations(Including Macedonia),it was the French,Prussians(Germany) who decided who gets independence.”

        “Foreign diplomats have been increasingly frustrated with Greek attempts to fabricate facts,come up with some sort of new history by ammending maps of dozens of its own history books who in the past showed their neighbor as Macedonia.All of it is for ‘reprogramming’ purposes of the young local population”.

        • If you like quoting Americans so much, why is it you Skopian frauds never quote this?

          “This (US) government considers talk of Macedonian “nation”, Macedonian “Fatherland”, or Macedonia “national consciousness” to be
          unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece”
          – US State Department Dec, 1944 (Foreign Relations Vol. VIII Washington D.C. Circular Airgram – 868.014/26)

        • But if we are is based on mythology….then what do you base yours on.
          A horde of ignorant Slavs wander into the ancient land of Macedonia and then thought they might acquire it by force.
          It may have worked in some places…for some periods…but payback came for you .
          Slaughtered and exiled to shitty FYROM ( Paeonia).
          Is that mythology??
          Suck it up Slav!!

          • If I were you,I won’t worry about Macedonia,you better worry about Ellada that is in deep shit economically due to corruption…Adams was right in describing you in 1783,applies today as then!!!

          • Fool…Google FYROM & see how much worse they are going.
            You FYROM rats are always looking for fault in others especially Greeks…bit ignore your own mess.
            Not only is your unemployment worse that Greece; you have huge ethnic tension and troubles that will boil over soon…Albanians will secede…mark my words.

          • At least they don’t jump from the 4th or 5th story to their death.
            An older man pushed his wife over the window,then he himself jumped to his death because of Greek corruption.Again,read what John Adams characterizes you Greeks.
            You have a PM who robbed the Banks of 130 million dollars,stashed them in black garbage bags and bought the SOB from Macedonia who still are trying to pay off Samaras because the Macedonian people won’t let bastards like Crvenkovski,Sekerinska,Vrckovski to sell the Republic of Macedonia to Samaras.

          • ”An older man pushed his wife …”

            That is what you base your argument on….what 1 old guy did??
            You obviously are not well educated at any high level.
            Because if you were you would not use anecdotal evidence to push your argument.
            Statistically Greece is in bad shape….but FYROM is in worse shape; accept it.

    • Smoke less crack.

      “The creation of the Macedonian nation, for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between
      science and ideology, so the “Macedonian” historiography, unopposed by anybody,
      comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the
      “Macedonian” identity was created. There is nothing atypical here for the
      process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from
      the type of substitution of the word BULGARIAN with the word “Macedonian”
      were made.”

      – Denko Maleski, former Minister of foreign affairs of FYROM from 1991 to 1993 in an interview to FYROM newspaper Utrinski Vesnik

    • ‘The idea that Alexander the Great belongs to us was at the mind of some outsider groups only. These groups were insignificant in the first years of our independence. But the big problem is that the old Balkan nations have been learned to legitimize themselves through their history. In the Balkans to be recognized as a nation you need to have history of 2,000 to 3,000 years old. Since you (Greece ) forced us to invent a
      history, we did invent it.’

      – FYROM Foreign Minister Denko Maleski – 1991 to 1993)

    • Not a single “ethnic Macedonian” exists in the former Yugoslavia. Not one. It is a country and ethnic group built entirely on historical propaganda.

      • Leftist censorship & Ausgreek,how can you claim greekness when you have no blood line with the ancient Hellens.First and foremost there are no ancient Greeks in existence.Oh yes my friends,Otto did write the so-called Greek history for self glorification.Take a look around you,all you see including yourselves as Arvanites,Turkus,Vlahus and indigenous Macedonians.There is no such thing as “Greeks”in existence.Ask Papulias(Sulayman)and Venizelos(Turkoglou=son of a Turk.

        We need to refresh our memories about Isocrates letter to Phillip where he Isocrates,makes clear that:
        Phillips ancestors understood that Greeks cannot submit to the rule of a Monarch,while non-Greeks actually cannot live without such a regime.
        People of non-kindred race was the term used by Isocrates to describe the Macedonians.Obviously,and with added emphasis, he is highlighting the distinction between the Macedonians and the Greeks.
        The epitaph written by Demosthenes,clearly makes the distinction between the Macedonians and the Greeks.
        The distinction between Hellens and Macedonians is explicit;
        “They were striving to safeguard the holy soil of Hellas from the attack of the Macedonians.
        Ancient Macedonians were not Greeks(in Badians words,paraphrasing),they did not consider themselves to be Greek,nore were they so considered by the ancient Hellens.Arrian tells us as far as Greece is concerned”it has been enslaved by the Macedonians.

        • Uhmmm…. genetic testing now only shows a direct biological relationship to ancient Greeks but we are even biologically related to neolithetic people in the region. (albeit inpurely so). What’s ironic is your own scientists say you Skopians are closely biologically related to Bulgarians and Serbs (which is unsuprising given most of you are direct descendents of self-identifying Bulgarians)

          The better question is how is it you obvious slavs, whose only connection to ancient Macedonians is whatever mixing you’ve done with Greeks, now ridiculously claim to be descended from ancient Macedonians?

          Not only are you not Macedonians, but your antihellenism marks you as ANTI-Macedonians. Every historian on earth (other than ones in FYROM) knows ancient Macedonians self-identified as Hellenes and with Hellenic culture.

        • I recommend you learn your modern BULGARIAN history before lecture on ancient Greek history.

          “Their kin-terms, household structures, marriage practices, and vernacular culture all closely resemble those of neighbouring groups. They are descended from people who were called, and at times called themselves, Serbs or Bulgarians” – Keith Brown, “The Past in Question: Modern Macedonia and the Uncertainties of a Nation”, 2003, Princeton University Press, p.2

        • “The political and military leaders of the Slavs of Macedonia at the turn of the century seem not to have heard Misirkov’s call for a separate Macedonian national identity; they continued to identify themselves in a national sense as Bulgarians rather than Macedonians.”

          – US Anthropologist Loring Danforth (FYROM lobbyist), “The
          Macedonian Conflict: Ethnic Nationalism in a Transnational World”,
          Princeton Univ Press, December 1995

        • There is a not single “ethnic Macedonian” in the former Yugoslav region of Vardar (aka ancient Paeonia). Not one.

          It is a nation and ethnic group built entirely on fraud. You have no more relationship to ancient Macedonians than any ethnic Bulgarians and ethnic Serbs you descended from, Your ancestors would have been disgusted in you for pretending to be Macedonians.

        • There is a not single “ethnic Macedonian” in the former Yugoslav region of Vardar (aka ancient Paeonia). Not one.

          It is a nation and ethnic group built entirely on fraud. You have no more relationship to ancient Macedonians than any ethnic Bulgarians you descended from, Your Bulgarians ancestors would have been disgusted in you for pretending to be Macedonians. You shame them, yourself, and your own family by hiding and oppressing your own obvious ethnic Bulgarian past. You risk conflict for stupidity.

          No matter who ridiculously “recognizes” you ANTI-Macedonian crypto fascist frauds, Ancient Macedonian artifacts will forever be written in Greek. They will forever attest to ancient Macedonians competing at ancient Greek-only Olympic games. They will forever attest to ancient Macedonians spreading Greek language and culture during the Hellenistic period. They will forever attest to ancient Macedonians self-identifying as Hellenes.


          “Men of Athens, that which I am about to say I trust to your honour; and I charge you to keep it secret from all excepting Pausanias, if you would not bring me to destruction. Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Greece, I should not have come to tell you; but I am myself a Greek by descent, and I would not willingly see Greece exchange freedom for slavery” Alexander I of Macedonia, … denied his Hellenic self-identification by modern NOT Macedonian inhabitants of the former Yugoslav republic, Herodotus, Histories, book 9

        • Hahahaha…cherry picking the quotes that suit you again…but without a link to back them up.
          I’ll let leftist censorship fight you quote for quote..
          Dude you are the progeny of a defeated people.
          It was my grandfathers generation that smashed you up & sent you scurrying over the border like rats.
          Was that more Greek mythology??
          For a bunch of people who don’t exist..or who only have mythology as a history we have left our mark in may places. Not just modern Greece, but Turkey , Italy especially Sicily, the Middle East, Russia, Ukraine etc etc etc.
          Who built those temple??
          Who wrote those inscriptions??
          Greeks did malakovski.
          As to my Greekness today how can you bee so sure that have no Hellenic bloodlines??
          I speak Greek…a language that is a descendant of the language that Alexander spread throughout the world.
          What language do you speak??
          One that has no ancient roots in the Balkans at all ands that is a fcat that even you accept.

          • No no,I am not under any illusion malakismene,you have no blood line with ancient Hellens,they were Egyptians and Ethiopians,and most of all,they were not Turks as you are! The proof is right here.
            The Greek language (Dimotiki)came in use in 1856-58.This is the time the Albanian language was outlawed to be used.The Greek language was codified in 1936
            You have a lot to learn!

          • Again hat proof do you have that I have no bloodlines.
            Most of us accept that modern Greece has Slavic & Arvanite bloodlines…but also Greek.
            What proof…supply links.
            Malakovski Greek language & writing survived throughout Ottoman rule…..It is preserved as are our songs.
            It was the language of the Klephts who kept the culture alive. Dimotiki came OFFICIALLY in use in 1856-58….that’s the difference.
            A codified language means a standardised language for all as often regional dialects exist.
            It does not mean that the language was invented there & then….get an education.
            The was also Arvantika spoken ….nobody denies that.
            They made up less than 10 % of the population.
            The Slavic population in Madeconai THARCE A S you nwop has run over teh border and on a few thoisa remain….hahahah…..that the nest new anyway.
            The Arvanites are almost 100% assimilated and intermarried with Greeks today…so what of it.
            Unlike the minorites in FYROM who will create their own countryr soon….hahahaha….cant wait!

          • Is your real name Peter Givens??
            Are you an American??
            Why is your name Givens??
            Have you changed it or is it your fathers name??
            Were you born in Macedonia or were your forebears??
            If you are an American of mixed ancestry it is highly hypocritical to claim a home in Macedonia Greece & also to introduce peoples bloodlines to the argument.
            In Australia I barely know 1 person of full Macedonian ( Slavic) bloodlines under the age of 30.
            The Greeks here are also interlibrary but the Slav Maks being of confused identity have so many split groups within their community that even marrying amongst themselves is a real challenge.

          • Rather you do, Peter, and, more than anything else learn some manners, please. In any case 28 per cent of Greek males carry the North African genetic marker, but then, so do 25 per cent of the males in Bulgaria and the FYROM, that does not make them Greek…

          • Ausgreek,if the Greek government of 1947 did not invite the Americans,you would been under the Soviet umbrella.The English lost faith in the Greek army,they pulled out and the Americans were greeted in Athens where Greece said to the general”welcome to your home”.
            The civil war in Greece was fought by both Greeks and Macedonians on both sides.DAG lost the war because Tito opened up the corridor of Kaimaxilan for the Greek army.
            Uzbekistan Soviet Union and Zgorzelec Poland was a mixture of Greeks and Macedonians,unfortunately,your vision is very short as is your brain.
            Just because you speak Greek,that does not make you a Greek.
            Because the Kutlesh(Vergina)findings have Greek letters,does not mean they are Greek.Greek language was used for trade as is the English language today.In the Republic of Macedonia there are findings of proto Macedonian letters.Visit Macedonia,you will see it.

          • Dude whichever it happened….the Slavs lined up with the communists & lost.
            When you lose a war there are consequences…so stop complaining.
            Not onoy do I speak Greek…but my garnmmoter whp was illeterate spoke Greek…sh in turn learnt abouit Greek lculture & hiry from her Grsanbpaarnet who wre alos illiterate and acxtaully lived under Ottoman rule.
            Geenaratin of illetare people who passed on tehri nlangaue , religion & culture down the line.
            Do you get it?
            Going to school & being brainwashed is a different story…or being re-eduacetd as happedn in teh Commonuisty countries.
            Modern Greece also has a Slavic & Arvanite componenet.
            The Arvaaiets knwo wheo tehey are…no one tolfd them that tehy are something else.

          • ”Because the Kutlesh(Vergina)findings have Greek letters,does not mean they are Greek.”

            Perhaps…but it surely strengthens the Greek argument.
            The tombs are very important as they too have Greek writing…the royal ones & the common.
            Surely you don’t think that even in death they were using the language of commerce & not their own.
            I live in Australia where English is spoken….but you can tell who are of Greek geriatric by what they write on their gravestones; even their homes or businesses.
            Really…think about it!

          • ”In the Republic of Macedonia there are findings of proto Macedonian letters.”

            I am not doubting that you may have an older form of your language….that you have named ‘Macedonian”
            I am however doubting whether it pre-dates 700 AD.
            But feel free to supply link.

          • Findings of proto Macedonian letters, lol, no one can be this stupid, I CALL TROLL! lolol…

        • Peter, the modern Greeks are such because they speak a language descended from the ancient Greek dialects, whether you like it or not, and they also have the “Greek” religion of Orthodox. These bloodline/racial/racist conversations you are trying to start completely are out of place. You don’t need to pass a DNA test to call yourself Greek, nor indeed anything else in the civilized world. Greece’s geographic position means that it has accepted a very high rate of migration and was culturally and genetically diverse even in ancient times. What held people together was the language and the religion (out of which the term Hellen is assumed to have come). All of these things you are quoting are circumstantial/pointless, not supported by archaeological finds. Why do people bother enter this debate with you?

          • Chevalier,I am not a racist,the fact is,you are for constant denying me who I am,my language,my ethnicity and my culture.Have you read your friends comment (Ausgreek) below.Do you think he knows what is he saying.Was Zahariadis and Markos Macedonians?.My teacher,Papathanasiou an officer in the Royal Greek Army who switched sides durring the civil war,never once said we are Greeks.Our classes were separate from the Greeks.
            Religion does not give you the ethnicity,but in Greece it does.
            As for the language you speak,it is different than the ancient.Language does not make you who you are.Lot of people speak same language,they are different ethnos.Ancient languages are not spoken today,there are similar words.You as us,we have ancient words in use today that are not same as your Greek words.It does make a difference,it separates us as different people.

          • You are ignoring the fact that modern Greek is a direct descendent Ancient Greek.
            It is closer than English is to Old English.
            So much so that I …not a very good Greek speaker can still make some sense of ancient writings.
            I know this troubles you.
            ”Our classes were separate from the Greeks.”

            So you were NOT Greeks…you are NOT Macedonian either… so what??
            You know very well what your Greek neighbours called you….Bulgars or Slavs.

          • Peter, modern Demotic Greek is descended from the ancient Greek dialects through Common Greek, an amalgamation of different dialects that is thought to have emerged in the army of Alexander the Great. Language does change through time, it is a living creature. And, I am afraid, ethnic identity very much is about language, religious practices and other things. You can read about this on Wikipedia. Your posts are full of fanaticism and conviction but you actually know very little about the issues you are debating. The Slavic branch of languages is one of the most conservative ones though and Macedonian Bulgarian would not be much different to the one you can hear in folk songs. Greek has changed more.

          • Chevalier Language changes,you are right,but again,don’t start bunching the Macedonian language with the Greek.
            Alexander the Great spoke Macedonian language,the evidence is at the Philotas trial in Asia in front of mixed population there.The proof you find it on Plutarch biography of Alexander.
            Ancient Macedonians in Pakistan still speak the ancient language.Here are some of the same words we the Macedonians speak today, voda=water,gazi=steping on,vadi=water the garden,grass.and many more.This language is called Brusheski,do these words match any ancient Hellenic words?.
            As for knowledge,I know my history better than you your “Greek”history,by the way,I also know your history.Professor Chevalier,read what Mario Alinei wrote.

          • It is based on linguistic evidence, Peter, that the ancient Macedonians spoke either a Greek dialect or a Proto-Greek language, including inscriptions 9Pella Curse Tablet0. Macedonian Bulgarian, as the name suggests, is either a Bulgarian dialect or a Bulgarian language. Nothing to do with the ancient one…And…no Brusheski language exists but Burushaski, which is not even Indo-European and water is shin. To find the family tree of a tree you would have to look at the grammar and closed-class words, Peter. You don’t know what you are talking about. The words you are giving above all are Bulgarian….

        • Did you mention Isocrates anywhere??
          Did he say thsi to Pillip
          Argos is the land of your fathers.
          To Philip, 5.32 (Loeb, G. Norlin)
          Therefore, since the others are so lacking in spirit, I think it is opportune for you to head the war against the King; and, while it is only natural for the other descendants of Heracles, and for men who are under the bonds of their polities and laws, to cleave fondly to that state in which they happen to dwell, it is your privilege, as one who has been blessed with untrammeled freedom, to consider all Hellas (Greece) your fatherland, as did the founder of your race, and to be as ready to brave perils for her sake as for the things about which you are personally most concerne

          To Philip, 5.127 (Loeb)
          … all men will be grateful to you: the Hellenes (Greeks) for your kindness to them and the rest of the nations, if by your hands they are delivered from barbaric despotism and are brought under the protection of Hellas.
          To Philip, 5.154 (Loeb)

      • Leftist,tell me,what do you consider those indigenouse Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia to be;Greeks or the real Macedonians as one wrote to me,or as Karamanlis said once”the real ancient Macedonians are the ones that came from Turkey(Pontious).
        Former FM Droutsas said Ï am born Macedonian and will die Macedonian”.Funny,he can be a Macedonian but the real Macedonians cannot identify themselves.Remember,Droutsas is not even a Greek,his mother is Austrian and father Cypriot,and that made him a true Macedonian?.
        The fact is;if you are Orthodox you are Greek regardless of ethnic background.
        Let me tell you something, I have my deed to our property in Aegean Macedonia,the toponims are written in the Macedonian language,for instance;Prisoo,Todoroa Livada,Olnishta,Tumbeto,Golina,Kopankite and others.
        Metaxas could not find a translation for these names lol!

        • You are not real Macedonians. You are ANTI-Macedonian ethnic Bulgarians (to smaller degree Serbs) that bizarrely rename everything “Macedonian”.

          The artifacts of Ancient Macedonians, the ultimate decider of what constitutes something authentically Macedonian, will forever be written in Greek and attest to their own self-identification as Greeks.

        • Greeks are indigenous.. Slavs are not indigenous to the region. Slavs showed up a thousand years after Alexander. Any connection whatsoever you have to ancient Macedonians is from whatever connection you have to us. Culturally, linguistically and biologically you are far closer to ethnic Bulgarians than Macedonians. There isn’t a single Macedonian in FYROM. Not one.

        • I have my deed to our property in Aegean Macedonia..’
          You lost the war remember…an enemy to the sate.
          “”,the toponims are written in the Macedonian language,for instance;Prisoo,Todoroa Livada,Olnishta,Tumbeto,Golina,Kopankite and others.

          Yes they are Slavic names…so what??

          • Aysgreek,,you don’t get it,I am trying to proof to you that,the toponims are not in Greek.Why would you think is that?.I don’t know why am I asking you to answer a question when you don’t anyway.
            I asked four questions before,and I am telling you,there is a big difference between the Greek and Macedonian language today and in ancient times.
            You people love to mention anything that is ancient,from history to historians.Well,I suggested to you guys to read what those ancient historian have said.
            There is a proverb in the Polish language;Öshle,oshle,sam pisalesh sam nie rozumiesh”.In translation,don’t take it personal;”Gaidouroi,gaidouroi,monos sou to egraptses,monosou den to katalavainois”.
            Since you are in Australia,you should be more open minded as you live in a country with many different nationalities.Those in Greece have been brainwashed by their politicians.
            In Greece there is a University called”Padion”,one of the professors is Alexis Heracledes who wrote the book “Analysis and Decisions of Conflicts”.This book has been approved by the Department of Education.The book shows the constitutional name of Macedonia on the map. This professor teaches International Law at this University

            Once more my friend,the Macedonian language is authocthonous to Macedonia.Macedonia and Macedonians pre-existed the Bulgars in the Mediterranean for centuries.The Tatars came centuries later on.
            Bulgarias claim is same as the Greek because they both hide the truth.
            Bulgarians like to call us Bulgars,Greeks call us Greeks and Serbia used to call us Serbs because that suits their politics since 1913 the partition of Macedonia by the Big Powers of France and Prussia(Germany).

          • Yes yes everyone is lying except the fools of FYROM….the only honest people on earth; give me a break.

            Yes there is a big difference between Greek toady & the language which you have Christened modern Macedonian.
            That language has it roots in Macedonia circa 900 AD after the monks Methodius & Cyril constructed a written language for the Slavs.

            As Chernorizets Hrabar’ the Bulgarian Monk & scholar once wrote:
            Being still pagans, the Slavs did not have their own letters, but read and communicated by means of tallies and sketches. After their baptism they were forced to use Roman and Greek letters in the transcription of their Slavic words but these were not suitable … At last, God, in his love for mankind, sent them St. Constantine the Philosopher, called Cyril, a learned and upright man, who composed for them thirty-eight letters, some (24 of them) similar to the Greek, but some (14 of them) different, suitable to express Slavic sounds.”

            But please supply a link to ancient Slavic if you can??

          • By way of your answers, you don’t seem to read written comments let along understand them .
            Read my comments before you open your loose tongue.
            Again,put the key into the ignition before you engage the gear,in other words;start your brain before your loose tongue starts spewing shit.

            Once more;you are no Hellen,If ancient Hellens new what you are doing,they will turn in their graves.

          • You grand statements of what I am or what I am not come with no evidence….or even a worthy hypotheses on your part.
            You are a typical Slav who resorts to simple slander when he cannot prove his point.
            But please free to attack point by point the assertions I have made as I have at least attempted to do with your drivel.
            Also feel free to dig up some archaeological evidence on your side of the border that prove that an ancient non-Greek Macedonian people existed with their own language.
            How much more evidence to you need to finally grasp that you have been mislead??
            So far your evidence consists of perceived weakness in Greek arguments or text….where are your texts.
            Where are the proofs that Macedonians of antiquity stood up & said ‘we are not Greeks’.
            On the contrary there is proof that they said ‘we are Greeks too”
            Against all the evidence of language, inscriptions, etc…. you give us Demosthenes who called others non Greek even Athenians that he detested.
            What else do you have???
            You seek to build a nation on the the word of one slanderous man hahahahaha!!

          • Krste Misirkov..the father of you new identity in his book’ On Macedonian Matters” , wrote that the Macedonian language should be based on dialects from the central part of Macedonia which are the Veles, Prilep, Bitola and Ohrid dialects.
            He also used those dialects in the book itself.
            Misirkov himself, stated that the Macedonian ethnicity did not exist at this time, and most of the people called themselves Bulgarians, but it could be created, if the historical circumstances called for it.
            So they called themselves Bulgarians up until the 20th century???

          • Modern Greeks are just like ancient Hellenes, they continue to sail the high seas, just like their ancestors did, even owning over 20% of freighters and tankers. Thanks for the laughs.

          • ”the Macedonian language is authocthonous to Macedonia.Macedonia and Macedonians pre-existed the Bulgars in the Mediterranean for centuries”

            NOT BEFORE 700 AD.
            The Bulgars may have come later…& came to rule the Slavs & hence the language similarities between you & they.
            The Normans ruled England & spoke Norman French.
            But their subjects were predominately Anglo Saxons; hence today English is a Germanic language with French (& other ) influences.
            The minority even though they ruled were absorbed by the majority as in Bulgaria.
            Originaly the word ‘Slav’ comes from Sklavo in Greek- meaning Slave.
            The Slavic people in Byzantium were seen to be the slaves of the Bulgars; a warlike people.
            These are your ancestors.
            But if you believe you have a connection to the Greek speaking Ancient Macedonians then it is possible….by way of intermarriage with the older inhabitants of Macedonia who were a Greek speaking; culturally Greek people.
            Is that what you are saying???

          • ”Since you are in Australia,you should be more open minded as you live in a country with many different nationalities.Those in Greece have been brainwashed by their politicians”

            Dude my knowledge comes from western sources written in English…& testimony from real people who lived through some of the modern events.
            How could Greek politicians brainwash me??

          • ”The book shows the constitutional name of Macedonia on the map. This professor teaches International Law at this University”

            Please be more precise.

            What doe this have to do with FYROM or ancient Macedonia??

            We all know that the boundaries of ancient Macedonia fall almost exactly into modern day Greece.

            Is the professor saying that FYROM is called Macedonia??

            Please define what you mean by ‘the constitutional name of Macedonia”??

            Please verify, qualify & supply link.

          • Well,I suggested to you guys to read what those ancient historian have said.”
            I can direct you to a site on what modern historians are saying about the ancient ones if you like.
            Get on this site…it is all the defence I need against your ancient historian claims.
            Google… macedonia-evidence dot org
            You understand the site will not let me post a link.
            Then tell me about being brain washed by Greek politicians.
            Hundreds of scholars from around the world have contributed to this.

          • Arrian 2.14.4,

            Alexander sent a reply to Darius by way of Thersippos, who went back with the Persian envoys. Alexander’s letter states as follows: “Your ancestors invaded Macedonia and the rest of Greece, inflicting evils upon us without provocation…”

          • ”The cultural milieu of the Macedonian court was Greek. The texts that Alexander studied as a youth were Greek. The books he read while in Asia were Greek. The heroes he emulated, the gods he worshipped, the temples he built were Greek. The coins he minted in the millions were Greek. The legacy he left behind from Anatolia to India was as Greek as his settlers could make it, right down to a theater, gymnasium, and inscribed copy of the Delphic maxims in a far corner of Afghanistan.”

            Frank L. Holt
            Professor of Ancient History
            University of Houston

        • The examples you are giving of “the Macedonian language” are Bulgarian, Peter….if there is no corresponding name for those localities in any other language, it would mean that those places were first inhabited by a Bulgarian population. This is consistent with the fact that Slavs were traditionally farmers and the place names you are giving sound like quite small villages. Obviously, Todorova Livada is a level.

          • Chevalier,these examples are from the Unzu Pakistani province and from the Macedonian Kalash people who never returned back to Macedonia due to their injuries.
            You know,it is like talking to a wall is talking to you,have a nice day!

          • What you said in your quote, available for anyone to read, is; “I have my deed to our property in Aegean Macedonia,the toponims are written in the Macedonian language,for instance;”
            I think that you are getting forgetful, Peter…the Kalash people have been tested and examined and are a purely Asian tribe. Some Greek DNA has been found but it is insignificant. The ancient Macedonians definitely did not speak Bulgarian and I am glad you have realised you cannot argue with me because I know my stuff very well.

          • Chevalier,you don’t know your stuff.The Unzi and Kalash people are ancient Macedonians.The Unzis joined Pakistan in 1947.Greek missionaries did go there and built a social club for them,the problem is no one goes in to this club.The missionaries left and never returned.The fact is,the king of the Unzis with his wife visited the Republic of Macedonia.Chevalier,you don’t know f*%#@ all.Give me your address I will sent you a DVD from the interview of the Unzis and Kalash people.Here you will see what really the ancients are saying.You can see if you can understand the Brusheski ancient Macedonian language.Compare it with Babiniotis theory(Do you know who Babiniotis is?)He said that the ancient Macedonian language is a Greek dialect LOL!. He was Greeces Minister of Education.With an educator like him,I can understand your education.

          • I have seen enough documentaries about Unzis, Kalash and other wannabes and I have heard enough conspiracy theories and ignorant man’s science. I’ve given you where you can go and read proper scientific stuff and credible research. But you are somehow intent on repeating the same thing over and over again like a broken record. I’ve no idea who Babiniotis is and don’t want to know either. I leave him to you and your likes. You’re a sad person indulging in delusion and wishful thinking, coming up with made-up stuff because it is too hard for you to face your delusions. And you’re a racist too. Anyone here can go and do their own reading and see how deluded/nasty you and the people you are representing are. So thank you very much for posting here.

          • Chevalier,I guess i have to give you a lesson on geography first.The Unzu province is located at the northern most part of Pakistan,the Kalash people are south west in Pakistan.Both these people are remnants of the Alexanders army who were wounded and could not continue to fight.It took 8 years for Alexander to reach India.
            How come such an educated person like you not know where the Unzu and Kalash people are or exist?

            Do you at least know who the Roumeliotes were,or who was Diakos or even Kiklopas,or most recently who lowered the Swastica at Acropole and jailed to appease the occupiers?I can even go further back,why Kolokotroni was jailed with his cousin.You must know them,you celebrate them every year even though he was not Greek.

            Chevalier,when you are cornered,you don’t care about them,Baniniotis was Greeces Education Minister.I advise you;before you engage the gear of your car,put the key into the ignition,turn it then engage the gear.What I am saying is;engage your brain first before you open your mouth.

          • No, and neither do I care to know because I am only interested in ancient history and pre-history, your claims here do not correspond to reality and I HATE racists. So, because you are not getting anywhere with your claims about the Balkans now you’re venturing into Pakistan? Whatever Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonians did has nothing to do with you anyway because your people are the Southern Slavic farmers and not the ancient Greek warriors.

          • Here’s who you can argue it out with, Peter. Go and tell him that he does not know anything and that you do (:-)):

            Jan Henrik Holst – September 3, 2012 – 5:21 am

            I am a linguist from the University of Hamburg and I have taught Burushaski in the last three years. I have also published on Indo-European languages, e. g. in Historische Sprachforschung. Already many years ago, I came across Casule’s claims, and, unfortunately, they are extremely flawed and nonsensical. In order to make such a case, one would have to know Burushaski well and the research on it, know Indo-European linguistics well, and be competent in the methods of historical linguistics in order to make such a connection. But that’s not the case with Casule; his publications are full of mistakes in all of these areas, they are horrible. Burushaski is of course not an Indo-European language; it is something entirely different. There are many layman claims like this around, and they are just a nuisance. The story shows that anything can get onto the internet.

          • May be if you are going to be making claims about a language the first thing you should do is learn its name properly.

          • Ancient Macedonian was the language of the ancient Macedonians. It was spoken in the kingdom of Macedon during the 1st millennium BC and it belongs to the Indo-European languages. It gradually fell out of use during the 4th century BC, marginalized by Koine Greek, the lingua franca of the Hellenistic period.[2]

            The volume of the surviving public and private inscriptions indicate that there was no other written language in ancient Macedonia but Ancient Greek,[3] and recent epigraphic discoveries suggest that ancient Macedonian was a variety of the Northwestern Ancient Greek dialects.[4]

          • And Alexander the Great of Macedonia turned to Philotas and said”speak my boy in our Greek language”right?.
            If you really were educated as you claim,shame on you my friend.Your Greek education is not in par with the world education,that is why your biggest financial donor attempted to teach your minister of tourism history.
            Alexander the Great said”Zeus is my father”.Then in Egypt aid the same about the Egyptian God.

            Can you read Greek?.Then read Isocrates,Demosthenes,Plutarch what they said about the Macedonians,be aware,it is written in Greek.LOL!!

          • I don’t need to read any circumstantial claims of ancient brains, Peter. I’ve got modern science to rely on. Those conspiracy theories are for the ignorant people that wish to keep themselves occupied somehow and the plain truth is too boring for them. They come up with all sorts of complex and far-fetched theories because they are more entertaining to them. There are archaeologists and serious historians. Feel free to discuss your Philotas with them and see what response you get from them. Only if they would bother to respond to you at all. He he he.

          • Chevalier,At least I know who I am,unlike you who is mixed with a dozen different ethnos.But remember,you are not connected with the ancient City States of Hellas,you are Arvanoturkos.To claim Greeknes is a myth,it is a blatant lie!!!
            And on top of it all,you claim the ancient Macedonians were “Greek”.who are you kidding?.No wonder,Greeks can’t sleep in peace,it bothers their conscious for all the fabrications.On every Greek election since 1991 are bringing Macedonia,why not Peloponesos,Sterea Ellada,Epiros,Thraki.There has to be a reason,don’t you think,or are unable to think?ha ha ha!!!

          • Well, I never said that I was Greek. It is just something that you assumed. And I haven’t got a clue what goes on at Greek elections nor am I interested in it. The subject here is Alexander the Great who has not run at the Greek elections yet, as he has been dead for a few centuries, if you have not heard yet. With regards the ethnic composition, that is not what the results of the official researches show. And if you knew who you were you would know you were BULGARIAN rather than come here and baptise the Bulgarian language Macedonian. Deluded liar. And why do you make it sound like to be an Arvanotourkos is a bad thing, whatever that means? Because you are RACIST RACIST RACIST and you cannot hide it. And you are embarrassed about your Bulgarian heritage. No wonder you hate the Greek. You need to love who you are first before you can love anyone else. But instead you come up with a fabricated identity about yourself that is nothing else but yet another conspiracy theory (the Macedonians were not Greek, the Americans blew up the twin towers, Elvis is alive and kicking etc..) and all of the archaeological, linguistic and genetic research contradicts it. Unless you embrace your Slvonian/Bulgarian heritage your community will not see a brighter day. People that don’t know their history don’t have much of a chance in the future. The FYROM has been stuck in isolation for the past 20 years and is going nowhere. Poor relations with every single neighbour and the American s clearly saying it it is because of its government’s actions and making a quiet exit gradually. Good luck, wannabes!

          • Peter your argument is finished. Everything you claim has been disproved by better men than all of us on this site.
            Men of science & learning.
            Most of them lean the Greek way which makes a lie of your claims of Greek fabrications.
            We don’t control the minds of the scholars & historian of the world.
            You can content yourself with what minority science says …we will take what the vast majority… the 99% say.

          • No my friend,my argument is not finished.Oxford and Madrid Universities are much,much more respectful than the one who took everything from Wikipedia.
            I will bet on Mario Alinei’s,Oxford University any time of the day!-
            You don’t control the minds of the scholars,but you have a lot of historians in your pocket.Your best historian Otto,a high school grad friend wrote the Greek history.
            I asked you guys to explain,what Demosthenes,Isocrates and Plutarch wrote,and Alexanders questioning Philotas as to the language he will address the Macedonians.
            All this is written in Greek.Why don’t you answer these plain questions.Is it too difficult for you to falsify it in translation???.

          • The same Oxford that in 2005 published DNA data in the publication “Molecular Biology and Evolution” showing barely no difference between yourselves and Serbs? And where you differed you were in line with the Bulgarians. Further even your own researchers came to the conclussion that you are closest related to Serbs and Bulgarians, which you can read on the internet. Or are they perhaps to ‘ Ancient Macedonians’ just that they do not know it yet?

            Demosthenes was a known for his single-minded belief in Athenian supremacy and hatred towards Phillip, but you make no mention whatsoever of Aeschines who defended the ‘Greekness’ of Phillip in Athens against this slander from Demosthenes and calling Phillip a Greek among Greeks.

            Concerning Isocrates this is a (intentionally I would assume) mistranslated word into English from ancient Greek. The original word (transcribed approx. “Filon”) which Isocrates used has various meanings in ancient Greek but the foremost and most common of which is that it was used to separate between the different Greek tribes, used for example by Pericles and Dicaearchus for this exact purpose (for detailed info look up Liddell & Scott and their work with ancient Greek lexicon or you can see it in the original Greek writing by authors like Herodotus and others). Now as you may or may not know the Macedonian royal house was undeniably recognized in ancient Greece as Greeks from Argos which makes Phillip of a different Greek tribe than the people he ruled and thus the distinction is used. Isocrates is not the least shy about branding the neighbours of Macedonia clearly as barbarians; there would be no reason for him to use the convention of speech for separating Greek tribes from each other when speaking of Phillip and his subjects.

            As for Plutarch he did not write “language”, but “foni”, and in ancient Greek this is to be translated better as how the speech ‘sounds’. You will find that it is there translated (more correctly) as “Macedonian dialect” by for example MITs classics database. You should be more careful coming with such bold statements when you lack the basic understanding in the subject (in this case the language of the Macedonians: ancient Greek). But maybe you believe Demosthenes advocated for a separate Attic language when he spoke of the Attikisti ti foni?

            Finally I would like to leave with a little exercise; try to find any reference to the trial of Philotas in for example Plutarch, Arrian, Diodoros or any other source besides Quintus Curtius Rufus. I can spoil already by saying that you won’t, as the trial as described is the brain child of Quintus and did not happen in reality. Plutarch for example describes it as torture and execution with Alexander listening from behind a curtain, never letting Philotas see him any certainly not a big crowd nor any dramatic rhetorically perfect speeches. For more of a in-depth discussion I refer to “Alexander’s Patrius Sermo in the Philotas Affair” from ‘Ancient World 30’, no. 2 (1999).
            As a bonus task you could explain why Quintus says that the confirmed Greek speaking Branchidae where not even saved from slaughter by the Macedonians despite ‘community of language’? (VII.5.33).

            As for the rest, Chevalier has covered most of it and I have yet to see any factual and hard evidence from you, so I have to concur with Ausgreek in his statement above.

          • ”Oxford and Madrid Universities are NOT in step with you.
            If there are people like Mario Akinie that have differing view that’s fine & good..they are not the views of the university….but of 1 man.
            Mario Alinei is at 1 end of the spectrum…very few others are there with him.
            Hie views are much like the climate change deniers who are the 3% as opposes to the 97 %.

            ”But you have a lot of historians in your pocket.”
            How on earth does a country like Greece get any one in their pockets is beyond me…your giving them too much credit.
            Every scholar will make their own mind up & they won’t all agree.
            But for some reason you expect us to believe that the few that you agree with are the honest & honourable ones & the ones that support the Greek view are liars & have been bought off.
            Your arrogance exceeds your stupidity on this.
            My main charge against you is that you won’t even accept that the majority view has any credit.
            Instead you embark on a nonsensical ride full of conspiracy theory’s & simple slander…& blatant lies as in the ”Otto made your history” theory.
            Did Otto go around burying artefacts that have later been dug up??
            He is 1 man who feared & loathed Philip & whilst he said he was not a Greek not related to the Greeks Philip begged to differ & made his capital the centre of Greek learning & culture.
            Importantly Demos also said that Phillip wasn’t even a barbarian…so what was he then??.
            If by your own assertion we must believe Demos & that the Greek called foreigners barbarians…then why wasn’t Philip simply a barbarian??
            The line between fact & slander is a bit blurry for Demosthenes ..not to mention that he had called other Athenians barbarians.
            Your argument rests on 1 man so strongly as you have precious little else to offer.

            Isocrates glorifies Philip in his speeches as a phil-hellene a term used for Greeks & non Greeks alike & besieges him to lead a united Hellas against the Persians.
            Hardly the tone one would take with a foreigner.
            ”Alexanders questioning Philotas”
            Even today I can use that to describe a Greek dialect that is different to mine ie ….milane pontica….milane kypraika = they are speaking Pontian..they are speaking Cyprian

            No one said or wrote that they conversed in a foreign or barbarian tongue but in Makedonika.

          • On Mario Alinei’

            Please tell us where he says that the ancient Macedonians were Slavic & non – Greek.
            Does he not clam that Slavic peoples always bordered with the Italic people & does not accept the Slavic incursion theory??
            That is his main theory.
            It still does not help your cause hahahaha!!

          • ‘ll see your Mario & raise you Florin Curta an expert on the Slavs…Google him.
            Demosthenes also said that Philip wasn’t even a barbarian so what was he??
            Trying to build a nation on what 1 man said is ludicrous especially when Demos call others….even fellow Athenians barbarians.

          • I don’t need you to come and tell me who and what I am, Peter. You and your claims are completely ridiculous and everyone is laughing at your country’s claims. If you haven’t realised it yet, nobody has raised any official objections to Greece joining anywhere. It is you that’s got the vetoes.

          • Chevalier,it was Sarkozi,president of France who said ” ïf I have known,Greece would have not been allowed to join the Euro zone”that was before Frances elections.His comment was on the falsification of Greece’s monetary situation for joining the club.
            It comes to mind what Adams said”corrupted in their morals to such a degree,as to be faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage”.
            Last week in Athens,the FM.of Macedonia said “we can help Greece to respect international Laws,and do what they say to do”.That was in respect to the ICJ decision and Salonika agreement about the Balkans.
            Chevalier,have a nice day my friend,and hope we will some day be able to seat down and talk like two good neighbors respecting each other!

          • Absolutely, nothing to do with my response. Random and irrelevant information. And I am not really your neighbour.

          • Classification[edit]

            Due to the fragmentary attestation various interpretations are possible.[5] Suggested phylogenetic classifications of Macedonian include:[6]

            An Indo-European language that is a close cousin to Greek and also related to Thracian and Phrygian languages, suggested by A. Meillet (1913) and I. I. Russu (1938),[7] or part of a Sprachbund encompassing Thracian, Illyrian and Greek (Kretschmer 1896, E. Schwyzer 1959).

            An Illyrian dialect mixed with Greek, suggested by K. O. Müller (1825) and by G. Bonfante (1987).

            A Greek dialect, part of the North-Western (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote) variants of Doric Greek, suggested amongst others by N.G.L. Hammond (1989) Olivier Masson (1996), Michael Meier-Brügger (2003) and Johannes Engels (2010).[8][9][10][11]

            A northern Greek dialect, related to Aeolic Greek and Thessalian, suggested among others by A.Fick (1874) and O.Hoffmann (1906).[8][12]

            A Greek dialect with a non-Indo-European substratal influence, suggested by M. Sakellariou (1983).

            A sibling language of Greek within Indo-European, Macedonian and Greek forming two subbranches of a Greco-Macedonian subgroup within Indo-European (sometimes called “Hellenic”),[5] suggested by Joseph (2001), Georgiev (1966)[13] and others.[14]


            From the few idiomatic words that survive, only a little can be said about special features of the language.[citation needed] A notable sound-law is that the Proto-Indo-European voiced aspirates (/bʰ, dʰ, gʰ/) sometimes appear as voiced stops /b, d, g/, (written β, δ, γ), while they are generally unvoiced as /pʰ, tʰ, kʰ/ (φ, θ, χ) in contemporary Attic (but not in Koine), barring a few exceptions.[15]

            Macedonian δάνος dánοs (‘death’, from PIE *dhenh2- ‘to leave’), compare Attic θάνος thános

            Macedonian ἀβροῦτες abroûtes or ἀβροῦϝες abroûwes as opposed to Attic ὀφρῦς ophrûs for ‘eyebrows’

            Macedonian Βερενίκη Bereníkē versus Attic Φερενίκη Phereníkē, ‘bearing victory’

            Macedonian ἄδραια adraia (‘bright weather’), compare Attic αἰθρία aithría, from PIE *h2aidh-

            Macedonian βάσκιοι báskioi (‘fasces’), Attic φάσκωλος pháskōlos ‘leather sack’, from PIE *bhasko

            According to Herodotus 7.73 (ca. 440 BC), the Macedonians claimed that the Phryges were called Brygoi before they migrated from Thrace to Anatolia (around 8th–7th century BC).

            According to Plutarch, Moralia[16] Macedonians use ‘b’ instead of ‘ph’, while Delphians use ‘b’ in the place of ‘p’.

            Macedonian μάγειρος mágeiros (‘butcher’) was a loan from Doric into Attic. Vittore Pisani has suggested an ultimately Macedonian origin for the word, which could then be cognate to μάχαιρα mákhaira (‘knife’, <PIE *magh-, 'to fight')

            If γοτάν gotán ('pig') is related to *gwou ('cattle'), this would indicate that the labiovelars were either intact, or merged with the velars, unlike the usual Greek treatment (Attic βοῦς boûs). Such deviations, however, are not unknown in Greek dialects; compare Doric (Spartan) γλεπ- glep- for common Greek βλεπ- blep-, as well as Doric γλάχων gláchōn and Ionic γλήχων glēchōn for common Greek βλήχων blēchōn.[17]

            A number of examples suggest that voiced velar stops were devoiced, especially word-initially: κάναδοι kánadoi, 'jaws' (<PIE *genu-); κόμβους kómbous, 'molars' ( /st/) (γενέσται, Attic γενέσθαι)


            Ancient Macedonian morphology is shared with ancient Epirus, including some of the oldest inscriptions from Dodona.[22] The morphology of the first declension nouns with an -ας ending is also shared with Thessalian (e.g. Epitaph for Pyrrhiadas, Kierion[23]).

            First-declension masculine and feminine in -ας and -α respectively (e.g. Πεύκεστας, Λαομάγα)

            First-declension masculine genitive singular in -α (e.g. Μαχάτα)

            First-declension genitive plural in -ᾶν

            First person personal pronoun dative singular ἐμίν

            Temporal conjunction ὁπόκα

            Possibly, a non-sigmatic nominative masculine singular in the first declension (ἱππότα, Attic ἱππότης)



            M. Hatzopoulos summarizes the Macedonian anthroponymy (that is names borne by people from Macedonia before the expansion beyond the Axius or people undoubtedly hailing from this area after the expansion) as follows:[24]

            Epichoric Greek names that either differ from the phonology of the introduced Attic or that remained almost confined to Macedonians throughout antiquity

            Panhellenic Greek names

            Identifiable non-Greek (Thracian, Illyrian and “native” – that is names generally confined to Macedonian territory that aren’t identified with any language, Greek or not) names

            Names without a clear Greek etymology that can’t however be ascribed to any identifiable non-Greek linguistic group.

            Common in the creation of ethnics is the use of -έστης, -εστός especially when derived from sigmatic nouns (ὄρος > Ὀρέστης but also Δῖον > Διασταί).[20]


            The toponyms of Macedonia proper are generally Greek, though some of them show a particular Macedonian phonology that might set them apart and a few others are non-Greek.


            Main article: Ancient Macedonian calendar

            The Macedonian names of about half or more of the months of the ancient Macedonian calendar have a clear and generally accepted Greek etymology (e.g. Dios, Apellaios, Artemisios, Loos, Daisios), though some of the remaining ones have sometimes been considered to be Greek but showing a particular Macedonian phonology (e.g. Audunaios has been connected to “Haides” *A-wid and Gorpiaios/Garpiaios to “karpos” fruit).


            The Pella curse tablet (Greek katadesmos)

            Macedonian onomastics: the earliest epigraphical documents attesting substantial numbers of Macedonian proper names are the second Athenian alliance decree with Perdiccas II (~417–413 BC), the decree of Kalindoia,~335–300 BC) and seven curse tablets of the 4th century BC bearing mostly names.[25][26]

            The Pella curse tablet, a text written in a distinct Doric Greek dialect, found in 1986 and dated to between mid to early 4th century BC, has been forwarded as an argument that the ancient Macedonian language was a dialect of North-Western Greek, part of the Doric dialects.[27]

            Hesychius Glossary[edit]

            A body of idiomatic words has been assembled from ancient sources, mainly from coin inscriptions, and from the 5th century lexicon of Hesychius of Alexandria, amounting to about 150 words and 200 proper names, though the number of considered words sometimes differs from scholar to scholar. The majority of these words can be confidently assigned to Greek albeit some words would appear to reflect a dialectal form of Greek. There are, however, a number of words that are not easily identifiable as Greek and reveal, for example, voiced stops where Greek shows voiceless aspirates.[28]

            ἄβαγνα abagna ‘roses amaranta (unwithered)’ (Attic ῥόδα rhoda, Aeolic βρόδα broda roses). (LSJ: amarantos unfading. Amaranth flower. (Aeolic ἄβα aba ‘youthful prime’ + ἁγνός hagnos ‘pure, chaste, unsullied) or epithet aphagna from aphagnizo ‘purify’.[29] If abagnon is the proper name for rhodon rose, then it is cognate to Persian bāġ, ‘garden’, Gothic bagms ‘tree’ and Greek bakanon ‘cabbage-seed’. Finally, a Phrygian borrowing is highly possible if we think of the famous Gardens of Midas, where roses grow of themselves (see Herodotus 8.138.2, Athenaeus 15.683)

            ἀβαρκνᾷ abarknai κομᾷ † τὲ Μακεδόνες Text Corrupted (komai? ἄβαρκνα abarkna hunger, famine.

            ἀβαρύ abarú ‘oregano’ (Hes. ὀρίγανον origanon) (LSJ: βαρύ barú perfume used in incense, Attic βαρύ barú ‘heavy’) (LSJ: amarakon sweet Origanum Majorana) (Hes. for origanon ἀγριβρόξ agribrox, ἄβρομον abromon, ἄρτιφος artiphos, κεβλήνη keblênê)

            ἀβλόη, ἀλογεῖ abloē, alogei Text Corrupted †· σπένδε Μακεδόνες [· σπεῖσον Μακεδόνες] spendô)

            ἀβροῦτες or ἀβροῦϜες abroûtes or abroûwes ‘eyebrows’ (Hes. Attic ὀφρῦς ophrûs acc. pl., ὀφρύες ophrúes nom., PIE *bhru-) (Serbian obrve, Lithuanian bruvis, Persian abru) (Koine Greek ophrudia, Modern Greek φρύδια frydia)

            ἀγκαλίς ankalis Attic ‘weight, burden, load’ Macedonian ‘sickle’ (Hes. Attic ἄχθος ákhthos, δρέπανον drépanon, LSJ Attic ἀγκαλίς ankalís ‘bundle’, or in pl. ἀγκάλαι ankálai ‘arms’ (body parts), ἄγκαλος ánkalos ‘armful, bundle’, ἀγκάλη ankálē ‘the bent arm’ or ‘anything closely enfolding’, as the arms of the sea, PIE *ank ‘to bend’) (ἀγκυλίς ankylis ‘barb’ Oppianus.C.1.155.)

            ἄδδαι addai poles of a chariot or car, logs (Attic ῥυμοὶ rhumoi) (Aeolic usdoi, Attic ozoi, branches, twigs) PIE *H₂ó-sd-o- , branch

            ἀδῆ adē ‘clear sky’ or ‘the upper air’ (Hes. οὐρανός ouranós ‘sky’, LSJ and Pokorny Attic αἰθήρ aithēr ‘ether, the upper, purer air’, hence ‘clear sky, heaven’)

            ἄδισκον adiskon potion, cocktail (Attic kykeôn)

            ἄδραια adraia ‘fine weather, open sky’ (Hes. Attic αἰθρία aithría, Epirotan ἀδρία, PIE *aidh-)

            Ἀέροπες Aeropes tribe (wind-faced) (aero- +opsis(aerops opos, Boeotian name for the bird merops)

            ἀκόντιον akontion spine or backbone, anything ridged like the backbone: ridge of a hill or mountain (Attic rhachis) (Attic akontion spear, javelin) (Aeolic akontion part of troops)

            ἀκρέα akrea girl (Attic κόρη korê, Ionic kourê, Doric/Aeolic kora, Arcadian korwa, Laconian kyrsanis (Ἀκρέα, epithet of Aphrodite in Cyprus, instead of Akraia, of the heights). Epithet of a goddess from an archaic Corcyraic inscription (ορϝος hιαρος τας Ακριας).

            ἀκρουνοί akrounoi ‘boundary stones’ nom. pl. (Hes. ὃροι hóroi, LSJ Attic ἄκρον ákron ‘at the end or extremity’, from ἀκή akē ‘point, edge’, PIE *ak ‘summit, point’ or ‘sharp’)

            ἀλίη alíē ‘boar or boarfish’ (Attic kapros) (PIE *ol-/*el- “red, brown” (in animal and tree names)[30] (Homeric ellos fawn, Attic elaphos deer, alkê elk)

            ἄλιζα aliza (also alixa) ‘White Poplar’ (Attic λεύκη leúkē, Epirotan ἄλυζα, Thessalian alphinia, LSJ: ἄλυζα, aluza globularia alypum) (Pokorny Attic ἐλάτη elátē ‘fir, spruce’, PIE *ol-, *el-, P.Gmc. and Span. aliso ‘alder’)

            ἄξος axos ‘timber’ (Hes. Attic ὓλη hulê) (Cretan Doric ausos Attic alsos ‘grove’ little forest. (PIE *os- ash tree(OE.æsc ash tree), (Greek οξυά oxya, Albanian ah, beech), (Armenian. haci ash tree)

            ἀορτής aortês, ‘swordsman’ (Hes. ξιφιστής; Homer ἄορ áor ‘sword’; Attic ἀορτήρ aortēr ‘swordstrap’, Modern Greek αορτήρ aortír ‘riflestrap’; hence aorta) (According to Suidas: Many now say the knapsack ἀβερτὴ abertê instead of aortê. Both the object and the word [are] Macedonian.

            Ἀράντιδες Αrantides Erinyes (in dative ἀράντισιν ἐρινύσι) (Arae[31] name for Erinyes,arasimos accursed, araomai invoke, curse, pray or rhantizô sprinkle, purify.

            ἄργελλα argella ‘bathing hut’. Cimmerian ἄργιλλα or argila ‘subterranean dwelling’ (Ephorus in Strb. 5.4.5) PIE *areg-; borrowed into Balkan Latin and gave Romanian argea (pl. argele), “wooden hut”, dialectal (Banat) arghela “stud farm”); cf. Sanskrit argalā ‘latch, bolt’, Old English reced “building, house”, Albanian argësh “harrow, crude bridge of crossbars, crude raft supported by skin bladders”

            ἀργι(ό)πους argiopous ‘eagle’ (LSJ Attic ἀργίπους argípous ‘swift- or white-footed’, PIE *hrg’i-pods < PIE *arg + PIE *ped)

            Ἄρητος Arētos epithet or alternative of Herakles (Ares-like)

            ἀρκόν arkon 'leisure, idleness' (LSJ Attic ἀργός argós 'lazy, idle' nom. sing., ἀργόν acc.)

            ἀρφύς arhphys (Attic ἱμάς himas strap, rope), (ἁρπεδών harpedôn cord, yarn; ἁρπεδόνα Rhodes, Lindos II 2.37).

            ἄσπιλος aspilos 'torrent' (Hes. χείμαῤῥος kheímarrhos, Attic ἄσπιλος áspilos 'without stain, spotless, pure')

            βαβρήν babrên lees of olive-oil (LSJ: βάβρηκες babrêkes gums, or food in the teeth, βαβύας babuas mud)

            βαθάρα bathara pukliê (Macedonian), purlos (Athamanian) (unattested; maybe food, atharê porridge, pyros wheat)

            βίῤῥοξ birrhox dense, thick (LSJ: βειρόν beiron)

            γάρκα garka rod (Attic charax) (EM: garkon axle-pin) (LSJ: garrha rod)

            γόλα gola or goda bowels, intestines (Homeric cholades) PIE: ghel-ond-, ghol-n•d- stomach; bowels[32]

            γοτάν gotan 'pig' acc. sing. (PIE *gwou- 'cattle', (Attic βοτόν botón ' beast', in plural βοτά botá 'grazing animals') (Laconian grôna 'sow' female pig, and pl. grônades) (LSJ: goi, goi, to imitate the sound of pigs) (goita sheep or pig)

            γυλλάς gyllas kind of glass (gyalas a Megarian cup)

            γῶψ gôps pl. gopes macherel (Attic koloios) (LSJ: skôps a fish) (Modern Greek gopa 'bogue' fish pl. gopes)

            δαίτας daitas caterer waiter (Attic daitros

            δάνος danos 'death', (Hes. Attic thánatos θάνατος 'death', from root θαν- than-), PIE *dhenh2- 'to leave, δανoτής danotês (disaster,pain) Sophocles Lacaenae fr.338[33]

            δανῶν danōn 'murderer' (Attic θανών thanōn dead, past participle)

            δάρυλλος darullos 'oak' (Hes. Attic δρῦς drûs, PIE *doru-)

            δρῆες drêes or δρῆγες drêges small birds (Attic strouthoi) (Elean δειρήτης deirêtês, strouthos, Nicander.Fr.123.) (LSJ: διγῆρες digêres strouthoi, δρίξ drix strouthos)

            δώραξ dôrax spleen, splên (Attic θώραξ thôrax chest, corslet

            ἐπιδειπνίς epideipnis Macedonian dessert

            Ζειρηνίς Zeirênis epithet or alternative for Aphrodite (Seirênis Siren-like)

            Ἠμαθία Êmathia ex-name of Macedonia, region of Emathia from mythological Emathus (Homeric amathos êmathoessa, river-sandy land, PIE *samadh.[34] Generally the coastal Lower Macedonia in contrast to mountainous Upper Macedonia. For meadow land (mē-2, m-e-t- to reap), see Pokorny.[35]

            Θαῦλος Thaulos epithet or alternative of Ares (Θαύλια Thaulia 'festival in Doric Tarentum, θαυλίζειν thaulizein 'to celebrate like Dorians', Thessalian Ζεὺς Θαύλιος Zeus Thaulios, the only attested in epigraphy 10 times, Athenian Ζεὺς Θαύλων Zeus Thaulôn, Athenian family Θαυλωνίδαι Thaulônidai

            Θούριδες Thourides Nymphs Muses (Homeric thouros rushing, impetuous.

            ἰζέλα izela wish, good luck (Attic agathêi tychêi) (Doric bale, abale, Arcadian zele) (Cretan delton agathon)[36] or Thracian zelas wine.

            ἴλαξ ílax 'the holm-oak, evergreen or scarlet oak' (Hes. Attic πρῖνος prînos, Latin ilex)

            ἰν δέᾳ in dea midday (Attic endia, mesêmbria) (Arcadian also in instead of Attic en)

            κἄγχαρμον kancharmon having the lance up τὸ τὴν λόγχην ἄνω ἔχον (Hes. ἄγχαρμον ancharmon ἀνωφερῆ τὴν αἰχμήν Ibyc? Stes?) having upwards the point of a spear)

            κἄ, Crasis kai and, together, simultaneously + anô up (anôchmon hortatory password

            κάραβος karabos

            Macedonian ‘gate, door’ (Cf. karphos any small dry body,piece of wood (Hes. Attic ‘meat roasted over coals’; Attic karabos ‘stag-beetle’; ‘crayfish’; ‘light ship’; hence modern Greek καράβι karávi)

            ‘the worms in dry wood’ (Attic ‘stag-beetle, horned beetle; crayfish’)

            ‘a sea creature’ (Attic ‘crayfish, prickly crustacean; stag-beetle’)

            καρπαία karpaia Thessalo-Macedonian mimic military dance (see also Carpaea) Homeric karpalimos swift (for foot) eager, ravenous.

            κίκεῤῥοι kí[k]erroi ‘pale ones (?)’ (Hes. Attic ὦχροι ōkhroi, PIE *k̂ik̂er- ‘pea’) (LSJ: kikeros land crocodile)

            κομμάραι kommarai or komarai crawfishes (Attic karides) (LSJ: kammaros a kind of lobster, Epicharmus.60, Sophron.26, Rhinthon.18:– also kammaris, idos Galen.6.735.) (komaris a fish Epicharmus.47.)

            κόμβοι komboi ‘molars’ (Attic γομφίοι gomphioi, dim. of γόμφος gomphos ‘a large, wedge-shaped bolt or nail; any bond or fastening’, PIE *gombh-)

            κυνοῦπες kynoupes or kynoutos bear (Hesychius kynoupeus, knoupeus, knôpeus) (kunôpês dog-faced) (knôps beast esp. serpent instead of kinôpeton, blind acc. Zonar (from knephas dark) (if kynoutos knôdês knôdalon beast)

            λακεδάμα lakedáma ὕδωρ ἁλμυρὸν ἄλικι ἐπικεχυμένον salty water with alix, rice-wheat or fish-sauce.(Cf.skorodalmê ‘sauce or pickle composed of brine and garlic’). According to Albrecht von Blumenthal,[17] -ama corresponds to Attic ἁλμυρός halmurós ‘salty’; Cretan Doric hauma for Attic halmē; laked- is cognate to Proto-Germanic *lauka[37] leek, possibly related is Λακεδαίμων Laked-aímōn, the name of the Spartan land.

            λείβηθρον leíbēthron ‘stream’ (Hes. Attic ῥεῖθρον rheîthron, also λιβάδιον libádion, ‘a small stream’, dim. of λιβάς libás; PIE *lei, ‘to flow’); typical Greek productive suffix -θρον (-thron) (Macedonian toponym, Pierian Leibethra place/tomb of Orpheus)

            ματτύης mattuês kind of bird (ματτύη mattuê a meat-dessert of Macedonian or Thessalian origin) (verb mattuazo to prepare the mattue) (Athenaeus)[38]

            παραός paraos eagle or kind of eagle (Attic aetos, Pamphylian aibetos) (PIE *por- ‘going, passage’ + *awi- ‘bird’) (Greek para- ‘beside’ + Hes. aos wind) (It may exist as food in Lopado…pterygon)

            περιπέτεια peripeteia or περίτια peritia Macedonian festival in month Peritios. (Hesychius text περί[πε]τ[ε]ια)

            ῥάματα rhamata bunch of grapes (Ionic rhagmata, rhages Koine rhôgmata, rhôges, rhax rhôx)

            ῥοῦτο rhouto this (neut.) (Attic τοῦτο touto)

            ταγόναγα tagonaga Macedonian institution, administration (Thessalian ταγὸς tagos commander + ἄγωagô lead)

            Other Sources[edit]

            αἰγίποψ aigipops eagle (EM 28.19) (error for argipous? maybe goat-eater? aix ,aigos + pepsis digestion) (Cf.eagle chelônophagos turtle-eater)[39]

            ἀργυρὰσπιδες argyraspides (wiki Argyraspides) chrysaspides and chalkaspides (golden and bronze-shielded)[40]

            δράμις dramis a Macedonian bread (Thessalian bread daratos)(Athamanian bread dramix. (Athenaeus)[41]

            καυσία kausia felt hat used by Macedonians, forming part of the regalia of the kings.

            κοῖος koios number (Athenaeus[42] when talking about Koios, the Titan of intelligence; and the Macedonians use koios as synonymous with arithmos (LSJ: koeô mark, perceive, hear koiazô pledge, Hes. compose s.v. κοίασον, σύνθες) (Laocoön, thyoskoos observer of sacrifices, akouô hear) (All from PIE root *keu[43] to notice, observe, feel; to hear.

            πεζέταιροι pezetairoi (wiki Pezhetairoi), Hetairidia, Macedonian religious festival (Attic πεζοί,πεζομάχοι) (Aeolic πέσδοι)[44]

            Πύδνα Púdna, Pydna toponym (Pokorny[45] Attic πυθμήν puthmēn ‘bottom, sole, base of a vessel’; PIE *bhudhnā; Attic πύνδαξ pýndax ‘bottom of vessel’) (Cretan,Pytna[46] Hierapytna, Sacred Pytna[47]

            σίγυνος sigynos spear (Cypriotic sigynon) (Illyrian sibyne) (Origin: Illyrian acc. to Fest.p. 453 L., citing Ennius) (Cyprian acc. to Herodotus and Aristotle[48] Il. cc., Scythian acc. to Sch.Par.A.R.4.320 (cf. 111)

            σφύραινα sphuraina, hammer-fish sphyraena (Strattis,Makedones (fr. 28) – (Attic.κέστρα, kestra) (cestra, needle-fish (modern Greek fish σφυρίδα, sfyrida)

            ὐετής uetês of the same year Marsyas (Attic autoetês, Poetic oietês)

            χάρων charôn lion (Attic/Poetic fierce, for lion, eagle instead of charopos, charops bright-eyed)[49]


            A number of Hesychius words are listed orphan; some of them have been proposed as Macedonian[50]

            ἀγέρδα agerda wild pear-tree (Attic ἄχερδος acherdos).

            ἀδαλός adalos charcoal dust (Attic αἴθαλος aithalos, ἄσβολος asbolos)

            ἄδδεε addee imp. hurry up ἐπείγου (Attic thee of theô run)

            ἄδις adis ‘hearth’ (Hes. ἐσχάρα eskhára, LSJ Attic αἶθος aîthos ‘fire, burning heat’)

            αἰδῶσσα aidôssa (Attic aithousa portico, corridor, verandah, a loggia leading from aulê yard to prodomos)

            βάσκιοι baskioi ‘fasces’ (Hes. Attic δεσμοὶ φρῡγάνων desmoì phrūgánōn, Pokorny βασκευταί baskeutaí, Attic φασκίδες phaskídes, Attic φάσκωλος pháskōlos ‘leather sack’, PIE *bhasko-)

            βίξ bix sphinx (Boeotian phix), (Attic sphinx)

            δαλάγχα dalancha sea (Attic thalatta) (Ionic thalassa)

            δεδάλαι dedalai package, bundle (Attic dethla, desmai)

            ἐσκόροδος eskorodos tenon (Attic tormos σκόρθος skorthos tornos slice, lathe)

            Εὐδαλαγῖνες Eudalagines Graces Χάριτες (Attic Εὐθαλγῖνες Euthalgines)

            κάναδοι kanadoi ‘jaws’ nom. pl. (Attic γνάθοι gnathoi, PIE *genu, ‘jaw’) (Laconian καναδόκα kanadoka notch (V) of an arrow χηλὴ ὀϊστοῦ)

            λαίβα laiba shield (Doric λαία laia, λαῖφα laipha) (Attic aspis)

            λάλαβις lalabis storm (Attic lailaps)

            ὁμοδάλιον homodalion isoetes plant (θάλλω thallô bloom)

            ῥουβοτός rhoubotos potion (Attic rhophema) rhopheo suck, absorb rhoibdeô suck with noise.

            Macedonian in Classical sources[edit]

            Among the references that have been discussed as possibly bearing some witness to the linguistic situation in Macedonia, there is a sentence from a fragmentary dialogue, apparently between an Athenian and a Macedonian, in an extant fragment of the 5th century BC comedy ‘Macedonians’ by the Athenian poet Strattis (fr. 28), where a stranger is portrayed as speaking in a rural Greek dialect. His language contains expressions such as ὕμμες ὡττικοί for ὑμεὶς ἀττικοί “you Athenians”, ὕμμες being also attested in Homer, Sappho (Lesbian) and Theocritus (Doric), while ὡττικοί appears only in “funny country bumpkin” contexts of Attic comedy.[51]

            Another text that has been quoted as evidence is a passage from Livy (lived 59 BC-14 AD) in his Ab urbe condita (31.29). Describing political negotiations between Macedonians and Aetolians in the late 3rd century BC, Livy has a Macedonian ambassador argue that Aetolians, Acarnanians and Macedonians were “men of the same language”.[52] This has been interpreted as referring to a shared North-West Greek speech (as opposed to Attic Koiné).[53] In another passage, Livy states that an announcement was translated from Latin to Greek for Macedonians to understand.[54]

            Quintus Curtius Rufus, Philotas’s trial[55] and the statement that the Greek-speaking Branchidae had common language with the Macedonians.[56]

            Over time, “Macedonian” (μακεδονικός), when referring to language (and related expressions such as μακεδονίζειν; to speak in the Macedonian fashion) acquired the meaning of Koine Greek.[57]

            Contributions to the Koine[edit]

            As a consequence of the Macedonians’ role in the formation of the Koine, Macedonian contributed considerable elements, unsurpisingly including some military terminology (διμοιρίτης, ταξίαρχος, ὑπασπισταί, etc). Among the many contributions were the general use of the first declension grammar for male and female nouns with an -as suffix, attested in the genitive of Macedonian coinage from the early 4th C BC of Amyntas III (ΑΜΥΝΤΑ in the genitive; the attic form that fell into disuse would be ΑΜΥΝΤΟΥ). There were changes in verb conjugation such as in the Imperative δέξα attested in Macedonian sling stones found in Asiatic battlefields, that became adopted in place of the Attic forms. Koine Greek established a spirantisation of beta, gamma and delta, which has been attributed to the Macedonian influence.[58] Other adoptions from the ancient Macedonian language include the simplification of the sequence /ign/ to /i:n/ (γίνομαι, Attic γίγνομαι) and the loss of aspiration of the consonant cluster /sth/ (> /st/) (γενέσται, Attic γενέσθαι), for example as in a Koine inscription from Dura-Europos from the 2nd-3rd C AD: τον Χριστὀν μνἠσκεστε.

          • The culture of Kalash people is unique and differs completely from the various ethnic groups surrounding them. They are polytheists and nature plays a highly significant and spiritual role in their daily life. As part of their religious tradition, sacrifices are offered and festivals held to give thanks for the abundant resources of their three valleys. Kalasha Desh (the three Kalash valleys) is made up of two distinct cultural areas, the valleys of Rumbur and Brumbret forming one and Birir valley the other, Birir valley being the most traditional of the two.[citation needed] Kalash mythology and folklore has been compared to that of ancient Greece,[9] but they are much closer to Indo-Iranian (Vedic and pre-Zoroastrian) traditions. This can be explained as Hellenic, Vedic traditions.[10] Some of the Kalash people claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great’s soldiers,[11] however, extensive genetic testing has shown no connection.[12] The Kalash have fascinated anthropologists due to their unique culture compared to the rest in that region, similar to ancient Persians.[7]

          • The language of the Kalasha is a Dardic language, a sub-branch of the Indo-Iranian group, itself part of the larger Indo-European family. It is classified as a member of the Chitral sub-group, the only other member of that group being Khowar. Norwegian Linguist Georg Morgenstierne believes that in spite of similarities, Kalasha is an independent language in its own right and not a dialect of Khowar.[13][14] Currently about 5,000 people speak Kalasha and it is considered critically endangered by UNESCO.[15]

    • For I (Alexander I) myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery.”(Herod. IX, 45, 2 [Loeb])

  5. Fake “Greex” will die of desperation as Macedonia turns back it’s rightful values and heritage.

    • Wrong. Despite everyone ridiculously calling you obvious frauds “Macedonians’ we are destroying you slavs inch by inch. Delchev, Gruev ,and Misirkov would been horrified by your attempts to claim yourselves descendants of ancient Macedonians.You clearly see Hellenism as more desirable than your Bulgarian heritage. All you are doing is slowly hellenizing yourselves and deleting all traces of your own ethnic Bulgarian heritage (to prove you are the “real” Macedonian”) Self genocide.

      I would have pity for you Slavs if you hadn’t done it to yourselves with your own hate.

  6. NO greeks, that have come to the region of Aegean Macedonia, from Asia Minor after 1920 can claim to be Macedonians.

    • What a load of crock. Census from many countries show a strong Greek presence in Macedonia in the late 19th century. What census do not show is the existence of “ethnic macedonians” in FYROM. Back then you ancestors used to freely self-identify as ethnic Bulgarians.

      We are Bulgarians and we always work and will work for the unification of the Bulgariandom.” -Dame Gruev (Director of the Bulgarian school in Stip)

      “We are Bulgarians, more Bulgarians than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria
      themselves.”[…]’And, anyway, what sort of new Macedonian nation can this
      be when we and our fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers have always
      been called Bulgarians? – Krste Misirkov in “Macedonian Matters”

      “Let us not allow the splits and splintering to frighten us. It is, indeed, a pity, but what can we do, since we are Bulgarians and all suffer from one common disease. If this
      disease had not been present in our ancestors, from whom we inherited it, they would
      have never fallen under the sceptre of the Turkish Sultan… ”
      – Gotse Delchev, IMRO leader, Letter to Nikola Malashevski, Jan. 5 1899

    • Greek<Athenian+Spartan+Macedonian+Aitolian+Achaian+Dorian+Ionian+etc.
      The terms on the right-hand side are tribal and no longer in use.

  7. All the smug self-anointed “human rights” activists have all disappeared into the woodwork now that the former Yugoslavians have bizarrely turned into “ancient Macedonians” and abuse the name to encourage irredentism (as Greeks warned would happen but were mocked by their incompetent Greek hating apologists). They all dishonorably pretend not to notice or downplay the Skopians behavior (i.e antihellenic bigots trying to hide their shame for supporting them)


    ‘We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.’ – FYROM´s Ambassador to Canada Gyordan Veselinov, Ottawa Citizen Newspaper, February 24 1999

  8. The propaganda by the FYROMIANS sooner or later will fall apart. Noone can change history and facts. What would people think if tomorrow China claimed that Texas is chinese land and belongs to them? Americans would laugh just like the Greeks laugh now with FYROM.

    • Jimmy,last year in April a German news paper wrote;”Foreign diplomats have been increasingly frustrated with Greek attempts to fabricate facts,come up with some sort of new history by ammending maps of dozens of its own history books who in the past showed their neighbor as Macedonia.All of it is for ‘reprogramming’purposes of the young local population”.
      As you can see,they are not laughing at the Macedonians,they are laughing at the Greeks.

      This comment appeared while the Greek Minister for Tourism was visiting Germany Olga Kefalogianni.

      German deputy Minister helps Greek Colleague Learn History was the headline in the German News paper as well as in the Greek news papers as reported by Greek media.
      Jimmy,next time get your story straight.

      • You could become a good comedian Peter, thanks for the laugh. Greeks do not have to fabricate anything, unlike others. Keep believing that you are macedonians, lol. Harsh reality will hit you hard one day. It is not our fault you have no identity and are desperately trying to occupy other nations history (Bulgarians laugh with you too). And remember that: no matter how hard you propagandize.. the truth always shines. :)

        • Jimmy,So you think Greece is the most honest nation on earth?
          Think again Jimmy,your denial of the truth equals falsification of the truth.
          First of all my dear Jimmy,you are not connected to the ancient Hellens,they are none-existent today.Modern Yunanistan is a product of Albanians,Turks,Macedonians,Vlahs,Roma and others.What it keeps Yunanistan together is the Orthodox church,because there is no ethnicity to keep you united as a so-called pure “Greeks”. Connection to the ancient Hellens you have none,nor to the Macedonian. All this was invented by your Prince Otto of Austria.
          Right you are,no matter how hard you propagandize, the truth always will shine.Deputy Minister Hans-Joachim Fuchtel was right on the headliner”German Deputy Minister Helps Greek Colleague Learn History.
          Even your friends are having a laugh with you!

          • ”So you think Greece is the most honest nation on earth?”

            Of course not….Greek are as dis-honest AND as honest as the next nationality.
            Surely you realise the world has had a gut-full of Slavic nationalist nonsense in the 20th century.
            Remember that much of Greece’s archaeological digs are international operations. Everything they dig up is held up to international & scholarly scrutiny.
            Your easy answer is that the Greeks are frauds and have stolen their history.
            But world leading archaeologists, historian etc disagree with you.
            Your people won’t even turn up at a museum to see for themselves…too painful maybe??

          • ”you are not connected to the ancient Hellens”

            So…so we just decided to speak the language en mass & throw away our true heritage one fine day??
            How do you explain that before Otto…in fact even before the nation of Greece was created….the people spoke Greek.
            Not only educated people…but the commoners, peasants…even the Greek Muslims who had converted.
            How do I know this??
            Because when the population swaps happen many Greek Muslims went went to Turkey knowing no Turkish…they spoke only Greek.
            I am not ignoring the fact that Aravanites & Slavic people lived amongst us either.
            But fain ask yourself …why were the Arvanites bi-lingual??
            Why would they need to know any Greek at all if there were no Greeks??

          • Ausgreek,before 1856 the main language spoken and written in Greece was the Albanian(Arvanitiki)period.
            You can tell your story to whom don’t know Greek history.
            Hold on now,don’t get excited with me,I am no historian,its been over 60 years ago I learned the Greek history,but let me tell you one thing,I know just as much as any Greek Joe does and you!
            Why are you twisting words that I did not say?Greeks honest,are you joking or did you loose your marbles? That is the problem with you Arvanoturkus,you read it but don’t understand it,and or twisted to suit you,as did Polybius.
            As they say ,which way the wind blows.I always wondered,how can one not understand,even written in their own language,they still find a way to fabricate it.
            I must say,you Greeks have mastered the art of fabrication,no one can deny it to you,I congratulate you!

          • Dude I have told you Arvanatika was a minority language.
            I have also told you that part of my knowledge comes from my own family history.
            I was taught about my Greekness from my Grandmother who was born in 1910…her parents were born roughly just after the time you speak of ( 1880)…her Grandparents were born about the time or before 1856.
            Why didn’t they speak Arvanitika.??
            My Grandmother despite not ever going to school knew her history often in rhyme…Alexander…Leonidas…heroes of the revolution etc etc.
            This was passed down from 1 generation to the other
            Why do I have items with Greek writing from that period??
            What happened to Arvantika??.
            Meanwhile I have also told you that I have Arvanites in my family.
            Their parents…born in circa 1940 or just before still spoke very good Arvanitika & were bi-lingual.
            These people made up less than 10 % of Modern Greece.
            And…what of the Pontic Greeks ( who we gave your old home to hahahaha).
            They came to Greece speaking an ancient version of Greek.
            When they lived surrounded & persecuted by Turks for centuries.
            There is no shame in saying that you are a n Arvanite or part Arvanite in Greece.
            We recognize quiet a few Arvanite heroes of the revolution….we don’t hide that.
            Hiding facts is for liars like the Slavs!!

          • Ausgreek,I was right,you finally recognize the truth of your ethnic roots.My question to you is;why are you so adamant to claim the ancient Hellens as your own roots when you have no blood line connection with as you just stated?.
            Let me tell you,every individual,every soul on this earth belongs to one or other ethnicity,Every one is proud of it,regardless of their ethnic background.There should be no shame for it,but the problem arises when one group of people tells the other that they are other than they are,such as the Greeks are doing for strictly political reasons.
            This reason is,to separate the Macedonians from its roots for no other reason than to prove that the Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia are not Macedonians but they are “Greeks”in order to usurp our history.
            Mind you,the Bulgarians are doing just that as well,so did the Serbs before 1944.
            It has been 24 years since one occupied part of Macedonia won its right to become independent,and that is the Republic of Macedonia.We are proud of it.We are able to re-claim our own history with out outsiders imposition.
            Ausgreek,the findings in Kutlesh(Vergina) are Macedonian,not Greek.If the Greek theory was right,these findings would have been in Athens.

          • Now you are really grasping at straws.
            I know my genealogy is Greek…I have explained to you how I Know.
            You have no reply to all the points I have made regarding thel angaues spoken in Greece and why
            In your new nation however;up to 35% + do not even agree with you on the Macedonian question.
            Ask the Albanians…ask the Serbs, Turks, Bosniacks, Bulgarians, Rhoma etc that make that 35 %…or is it 40%…. what they think.
            And what of the ‘so called’ Macedonian majority in FYROM??
            What are their bloodlines?
            Bulgarian, Greek Turkish etc hahahaha??
            You are building a house of straws.
            ”the findings in Kutlesh(Vergina) ”

            The fact that you call it Kutlesh already prove my pointy.
            Philip & Alexander called it Vergina; no doubt you have some strange theory as to why this is the case.
            Your ancestors who moved in their 1000 years later call it Kutlesh.
            Your not even clever enough to understand that point.
            But feel free to go to any museum on earth that exhibits ancient Macedonian artefacts & try to read the inscriptions.
            Ask yourself why you cannot but a even a modern Greek speaker can make some sense of it despite ity being a 2000 = year old language.
            You will be sadly disappointed!

          • ”If the Greek theory was right,these findings would have been in Athens.”

            Oh foolish Slav!!
            Finds like the ones in Vergina are found all over Greece,
            The can’t even dig a hole in Greece without finding something from antiquity or the Byzantine period.
            Whether it be in Macedonia, Peloponese the islands etc.
            International experts can tell us who left them behind…. Greeks or Romans or Turks ,Venetians etc.
            Why cant you find something in sh!tty FYROM??
            So far your argument is about what Greeks have found in Greece or what Greeks have said in the past (ie Demosthenes- your best friend who called other Athenians barbarians as well when he did n like them).
            Why don’t you produce your own writing / evidence??
            Why cant you find something to show the world that perhaps can support your argument??

          • Peter, once again, this conversation about bloodlines that you are having is out of place and racist. The ancient Greeks were of no single “bloodline”/genetic marker, as I have said to you before. Greece was populated in waves of migration from different parts of the world. The one that dominated, the so-called Myceneans, brought the Greek language with themselves from the north. But the land was already populated by pre-existing peoples. Some of them were chased out but others were incorporated into tribal Greece. They carried on speaking their own languages, which the Greek speakers sometimes call Pelasgian and sometimes Karbana audan. The “Myceneans” eventually absorbed those pre-existing populations not only genetically but also culturally. There are a lot of place names in Greece of Pelasgian root and the ancient Greek religion also incorporated Pelasgian religious practices. If you would really like to find out the genetic composition of modern Greece, you can read about this on eupedia, the EU’s genetics project for Europe: 30% of Greek males have the Graeco-Anatolian marker, which is some of the earliest inhabitants in the area. So, this is considered quite high and shows the ancient contribution to the modern population. Neighbouring Bulgaria and FYROM have only 12% of this specific marker. And the highest concentration in the Balkans is in Albania with 40% and the island of Crete (as well as parts of Italy). As opposed to this both north Bulgaria and the FYROM have 22% of the male population carry a Slavic marker. This is considered high and is peaking at 50% in BH and Croatia, which is consistent with Byzantine accounts that the Slavic invasion of Greece started with invasions from the Western Balkans. So, your claim that the modern Greeks have nothing to do with the ancients is wrong but also your insinuation that the ancients were somehow pure is wrong. Ethnicity is about culture and not about a DNA status, which is a relatively modern thing. Each part of ancient Greece had its own local culture and Greek dialect, they were not all identical. “Mycenean” type burials start in Macedonia at roundabout the same time that they start in Southern Greece, so this is an indication of the same people settling the area and these are the first bearers of Greek in the area too. Obviously, the geographical distance and different influences would mean that different areas would develop in different ways culturally but the signs are that both Southern Greek and ancient Macedonian culture and language were of the same root. Findings outside of Athens can be Greek as well, although Athens itself developed its own unique pottery and burial customs not found anywhere else in Greece in antiquity. This does not mean that the Athenians were not Greeks. The sun aureole that was an emblem of the Macedonian royal house has been found on statues and pottery in Greece and Troy (built by the Myceneans) adorning the head of the sun god Helios. It was a common Greek motif. Through the very few surviving Macedonian words we also get an idea of the meaning of the name of the land of the Spartans Lakedaimona; land of salty water. It would seem that Macedonian had preserved a Proto-Greek vocabulary and phonology.

          • Chevalier,this is the point I am making,you continue with the usual falsification of historical truth.It is very convenient for you Greeks to fabricate.You are bunching the Macedonians as being an offshoot of the Greeks,how convenient!
            Oxford and Madrid Universities beg to differ from your and Greek theory of bunching the Macedonians with the Bulgarians,or even with your claims with the Greeks.
            Here is what Mario Alinei,Dean Emiritus of the University of Utrecht,Director of several Linguistic Reviews and Progenitor of the Continuity Theory,states;Ï have to commence by clearing away one of the most absurd consequences of the traditional chronology namely,that of the arrival of the Slavs into the immense area in which they now live.The only logical conclusion can be that the Southern branch of the Slavs is the oldest and that from it developed the Slavic Western and Eastern branches…Today only a minority of experts support the theory of a late migration of the Slavs.
            Recent genetic studies conducted by Oxford University reveal that todaye ethnic Macedonians carry only 15.2% of the Slav gene,slightly above modern Greeks and Albanians and less than Serbs and Bulgarians!
            They further reveal that todays ethnic Macedonians have the highest amount of the Mediterranean gene of all European people!

            This was also confirmed by the University of Madrid studies.In the court of LAW,it is genetic proof that is conclusive,I might add!

            Further,there is no pure Slav people…just like there is no pure”Greeks”

            In summation…Ethnic,yes todays Ethnic Macedonians cannot possibly be of the old Meditteranean substratum if they were slavs arriving in the Balkans in 6thcAD as the 19th century Western construct asserts!!.
            Todays ethnic Macedonians are authocthonous to Macedonia,it is very simple! Their language,unintelligable to the ancient Greeks,was a form of proto/Macedonian/slav,which then spread outward,becoming more complex as it moved further away from Macedonia..
            Countless proto Macedonian letters unearthed on the territory of the Republic of Macedonia,and no doubt in Pirin and Aegean Macedonia,though the respective occupiers have no doubt concealed them from the world because it does not fit their lies.”

            Above is the findings of these two respective Universities through their own research.
            Chevalier,you are wrong in your assumption,you are carrying Greeces political fabrication to conceal the truth,and all just for politics.

          • Peter, I have very clearly said to you that this information is on the eupedia website, which is owned by the EU and not the Greek government. This is that is showing that the inhabitants of the FYROM are more or less the same as those of Bulgaria and not the Greek government. It is not falsification but the results of scientific research, which you can see for yourself. It is a different matter if you do not like this and choose to read random and not widely accepted viewpoints. These things that you are quoting are random without any dates or anything. What is the “Mediterranean gene”? As said to you previously the highest percentage of genetic heritage in the FYROM is the North African one with 25%, which is even higher in Greece at 28% and even higher in Albania. This is non-Indo-European migration straight out of Africa without any wondering through Asia, which is why it may be correct to call it indigenous. There is no country in Europe that is not mixed, with Greece and Italy showing the highest proportion of mixing but so would it be with the FYROM. And culturally the Slavonian language and customs seem to have prevailed there. Obviously, it is specific people that brought the language with them. And in Greece the Greek language has and in Albania the Albanian. This is not something that Greece is claiming but it is what linguists outside of Greece are saying. But it would seem anything that does not suit you you just say that it is the fabrications of the Greek government, which I have nothing to do with. I am speaking to you with facts you can find on Wikipedia. This is only testament to your hatred and fanaticism. Equally, it could be claimed you are promoting the views of the Gruevski regime…

          • Chevalier,and I am telling you, the eupedia supports Greece, it is because of the Greek pressure at EU and NATO.
            Please,stop embarrass yourself,ancient Athenians came from Egypt and Ethiopia,therefor,you are not Meditterranean people as are the Macedonian.
            I don’t read the wikepedia,learned history in a neutral country that took no sides in the ethnic dispute as in Greece.My host country had no interest to side with one or the other people.I had respectful teachers,Greek and Macedonian and from the host country.
            Our language did not disappear neither.

          • LOL, so the EU is now publishing false data to support Greece…sounds more like your wishful thinking, but, if you have evidence for it, then, you should make it public, otherwise, we will assume that it is just libel. of course, Bulgarian has not disappeared. it is widely spoken.

          • The whole world supports Greece because of the actual historical facts and no other reason.And you will stay out of the EU and NATO till you come into your senses.Bulgaria and Greece will veto you till doom’s day Slav.Get it into your thick Scopian head

          • ali,at least we don’t want to become members of NATO and EU under your conditions of fabricating our finances.As far as the membership,we don’t sell off our skin as you do.
            Tiny Macedonia is outperforming your country in everything for the last 8 years with the best Prime Minister in the Balkans and beyond,and that is Nikola Gruevski.He is not about to sell off his people as you do.

          • This is what I have found about your favourite Alinei. His views are not widely accepted and they are not something that I have been taught at University as part of my linguistics degree. Besides, if IE languages originated in Europe why do we find their older extinct form is China and India? It doesn’t make sense.,,;

            “Alinei has authored hundreds of publications and is a well-known scholar in the field of dialectology. He is also the main proponent of the Paleolithic Continuity Theory, which contends that the Indo-European languages originated in Europe and have existed there since the Paleolithic.[1]

            It is not listed by Mallory among the proposals for the origins of the Indo-European languages that are widely discussed and considered credible within academia.[5]”

          • Peter i ll say one thing and only we Helenes are a continuation of the ancient hellenes our language our way of thinking and our culture every single macedonian monument founded is in greek greek architecture greek language Greek everything!!! You like it or not we have the richest history mythology and we invented the western idea and democracy macedonia is a greek name meaning tall man macedonia was greek northern kingdom like sparta athens thebes etc its 3000 old you are 20 years maximum country and 600 roughly race of slavs Arvanites were migration that thought themselves to be greeks from the times of Byzantium they believed in the greek cause and fought with the greeks that doesnt mean all greeks are arvanites to end this until a macedonian ancient relic be found in slavic that proves macedonian were slavs you dont have the right to claim something that is not yours. Is like a history professor trying to explain to little kids what Plutarchos was and you are the little kids that think they re superheroes and you can fly we can do one thing laugh or be sad for you slavs skopians or whatever you are.

          • You moron, Arvanites never made up 10% of the Greek population anytime in history, and you’re going on about the main language being Arvanite? And dumbass, it wasn’t unheard of Arvanites being bilingual, speaking both Greek and Arvanitika, even before they came to Greece, had to do with them sailing the high seas just like Greeks and trading with each other and actually mixing, but what would your mountain slav brain know about that. What about family names chiseled into houses on my Island written in Greek, some dating the 1700’s? If you’re going to lie, make it something believable at least.

          • You need to get some education buddy. Also, do not expect any nation to just share their history with you. Canadians are Canadians, Germans are Germans, French are French, Chinese are Chinese, Greeks are Greeks and Fyromians are…? You see my point?

          • Jimmy,you must be an idiot.There are no such thing as fyromians,we are Macedonians.The one that needs some history is you,you can’t even wipe your ass let along to teach me history.
            Here is an reminder for you;German Deputy Minister Helps Greek Colleague Learn History.
            “Foreign diplomats have been increasingly frustrated with Greek attempts to fabricate facts,come up with some sort of new history by ammending maps of dozens of its own history books who in the past showed their neighbor as Macedonia.All of it is for ‘reprogramming’ purposes of the young local population”.
            Jimmy,can you read and understand English,or would you rather have me write it for you in your language which ever it is?.
            This statement was all over German news media on April of 2013.

            As for your classification of Canadians are Canadians.Germans are Germans,so are Macedonians are Macedonians,but take a look what your friend said.Read Ausgreek comment of 16 hours ago,just above your comment.where it says(27 minutes ago)Read it and then come back to comment.
            A Greek does not mean is a Greek.There is no such ethnicity in existence.To be a Greek,you need to speak the language and accept Orthodoxy.
            Min prosvalese toso kato!!!

          • ”Foreign diplomats have been increasingly frustrated with Greek attempts to fabricate facts,come up with some sort of new history by ammending maps…”
            Is that all you’ve got??
            What 1 newspaper said.
            But please can you reference this statement for us.
            Where did it come from… date etc so we can research it ourselves.
            The only frustration in Europe is with FYROM which many diplomats fear will disintegrate along ethnic lines because of the bad direction of the government.

          • Heres is your request:
            “German Deputy Minister Helps Greek Collegue Learn History
            Wednesday,April 3,2013
            “Ä German deputy-Minister showed a map where Macedonia is shown with its constitutional name while elaborating over a meeting at the Greek tourism ministry,local media reports from Athens.

            After a meeting with Greek Tourism Minister Olga Kefalogianni,Federal Deputy Labor Minister Hans-Joachim Fuchtel showed a map where Macedonia is shown with the constitutional name and abbreviation MK.

            Minister Kefalogianni did not react to Fuchtel’s move,which surprised those attending the event,reports Greek media.

            Foreign diplomats have been increasingly frustrated with Greek attempts to fabricate facts,come up with some sort of new history by ammending maps of dozens of its own history books who in the past showed their neighbor as Macedonia.All of it is for ‘reprogramming’purposes of the young local population”.

            Ausgreek,that is the article that appeared in German news media,and in Athens as well.

            If you want more information on this subject,inquire at the Greek Tourism Ministry,Athens Greece, maybe even Olga Kefalogianni the Minister herself.

          • Obviously you have no real reference to offer.
            But even if that were the case as usual the Slavic line is that of what the minority says rather than what the majority says.
            Majority opinion in academic circles is that ancient Macedon was Greek.
            One man called Philip a barbarian so they were not Greek… countless others called them Greek & they self identified as Greek…but lets believe the 1 guy who suits our argument.
            PS By the way Demosthenes did not call him a barbarian at all.
            He said that Philip was not Greek or relatd to the Greeks nor a Barbarian but a knave from Macedonia.
            Make of that what you please!!

          • So, Peter, you obviously cannot see the difference between the name of a geographic area within a country and the official name of a sovereign country. Neither can Mr Fuechtel. Besides your article says Greece is fabricating facts but does not mention a single one of them specifically. What is the point of posting this here?

          • So by your comments you have admitted that only 64 % of FYROM a re your country men.
            What will you do with the rest hahahaha!!
            ”The country is an ethnic mosaic. Slavic Macedonians represent the largest group (64% of the population). Ethnic Albanians are the biggest minority (25%), with Turks (3%) and Roma (1.9%) also present.”
            Google WWW.

          • The difference between Yunanistan is;in Macedonia we don’t force the people to convert,we know we are the majority.
            Do you know who was the chief of police of Athens in 1982?
            He introduced the Greek Secret Service plan for Macedonians.
            Part of the document says;”The Greek Secret Service despised the fact that Macedonians marry only Macedonians in Greece,and made plans how to mix marriages,so the Macedonians would loose their ethnicity.”

            Hellenic Republic Top Secret
            Ministry of Public Security
            National Security Service
            Athens,16th February,1982
            Number of protocol 650217-30427

            Chief of Police Dimitris Kapelaris ANT/GOS.
            This whole document you can get it from Athens if you want to read it.
            It consists of 12 paragraphs,plus 9 more under the”Greek Secret Service plan for Macedonia.”Once you read it you will understand the truth.

          • Malakovski Slavs in Greece have already almost all intermarried.
            Guess what I have a cousin in Arcadia whose wife is half Slav- Mak & half Macedonian Greek.
            Her father is bi-lingual.
            What does that make their children fool??
            There about 2.3 million people in Macedonia Greece.
            How many of them agree with you fool???
            You’d be lucky to find 50,000 people who claim that they are not Greek.
            PS Do you even know why 1/2 the world ( the east) calls us Yuni or Yunistan & the other 1/2 Greek or Greco??

          • Are you seriously trying to tell me that 1.6 million tops… FYROMITES who call themselves Macedonian are not of mixed origin??
            Do they all even agree with you on this matter??
            What happened to the rest of your race…if indeed you were one from ancient times??
            Why isn’t there people all over the world claiming Slavo-Macedonian background??.
            You will find the remnants of Greek language & Greek culture every where Alexander went.
            In Southern Italy & Sicily ( where hi didn’t go but his uncle Alexander did) there are still pockets of Greek speakers & the Italians proudly show off the ancient Greek buildings alongside the Roman ones.
            In Russia , Crimea, Ukraine they still have cities with Greek names ie Sevastopol & Simferopol & tourists visit ancient Greek sites.
            Even the Turks who would once upon a time tell tourists that these are ancient Turkish ruins have been shamed by the intentional community into calling them what they are…Greek.
            Where are you??
            NOWHERE except a land that was never even part of ancient Macedonia hahahaha!!

          • So according to your absurd statement ….” Canadians are Canadians.Germans are Germans, etc BUT….’A Greek does not mean is a Greek.There is no such ethnicity in existence.’

            Dude…are you trying to tell us that Canada, Germany or any nation is 100 % homogeneous??
            You’re making a fool of yourself…stop before you hurt yourself hahahaha!!

          • ”Read Ausgreek comment of 16 hours ago”

            Dude I have tried to be fair & honest with you ..but like a typical Slav liar you have thrown it back in my face.
            I will resort to point form to help you understand.
            1. the Modern Greek state is 97% Greek Orthodox .
            2. Of that 97% ..bloodlines are predominately Greek with minorities having been by & large absorbed via intermarriage.
            3. Non Greek component of the Modern Greek population may have been as much as 10 % NOT higher; this is now irrelevant because of Intermarriage, assimilation etc.
            4. Macedonia did have a larger number of Slavs before WW2 ( your relatives hahaha) But now the numbers are very low as attested to by the Rainbow party’s poor showing at elections.
            In 2010 Rainbow tallied a countrywide total of 4,530 votes ( and failed to gain a seat in the European Parliament. Their best return was in the Florina prefecture, with 1,195 votes .

            That’s it dude hahaha the PARTY of the NON- Greek Macedonians of Greece hahaha.
            5. Yes Pontic Greeks were brought in to bolster the Greek culture of Macedonia at the expense of the Slavs….this still does not make the Slavs descendants of the ancient Macedonians as we all know when the Slavs arrived.
            6.The Greeks were always the biggest ethnic group of Macedonia as attested to by Ottoman census.
            7. Al historical evidence from all archaeological digs (including the famous Vergina) show nothing but Greek language spoken in ancient Macedionia…that’s got to kill you hahaha.
            I would also say that racial purity does NOT exist anywhere in the world …be it Greece, FYROM, Germany etc etc.

          • Ausgreek,I don’t think I should repeat myself again on the issue of ethnicity.You my friend are off base as usual with you so-called”Greek”
            I suggest to you,read your own comments where you admit your bloodline is Turkish.Do you remember the Polish proverb I wrote it for you?Well,it applies right now to you.

            Thanks for the conversation we had,I will not waste my time with you any more because you write something and contradict yourself,than you come back and deny it.

          • You spend al ot of time saying very little. But please show us where I said my bloodlines are Turkish..feel free to para-phrase you lowlife Slav.

          • It is time to scurry over the border like your father & Grandfather did.
            Another lost war for you.

          • An idiot calling another the same…. You should book out the comedy theatre in FYROM, I bet you the FYROMESE will also laugh at you…

          • Fyronians are bulgarophone Slavs, I finish your sentence because the Fyronians are so dim they do not know their origins.

          • How’s this for a reality check? Why are you so ashamed of your Slavic Bulgarian roots? Here is what one of your key Skopian national heroes Goce Delchev had to say about the Skopians who pretend to be Macedonians. Goce Delchev was a key leader in the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO), a paramilitary organization active in the Ottoman territories, in Europe at the end of the 19th, and the beginning of the 20th century.

            The below is a letter from Goce Delchev to Nikola Maleshevski in which he refers to himself as a Bulgarian.

            “I have received all letters which were sent by or through you. May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when WE OURSELVES ARE BULGARIANS and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldnt have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans.”

          • How could he be Bulgarian when he was born in Aegean Macedonia as I am.Make up your mind boy.Why are you calling us “Greeks”,but when events took place prior to 1913 we were Bulgarians?Do you know what this date mean?

          • There is no such thing as Aegean Macedonia and I am not a boy. There is only one Macedonia which is a different thing to the Aegean Sea. Macedonian was mainly populated by Bulgarian peasants until it was conquered by the Greeks. You read about it.

          • 1913 was liberation of Greeks lands from the ottomans… After hundreds of years of occupation, the state of Macedonia was reunited with the other states which made Greece.

            What is now needed is for FYROM to reunite with Bulgaria and the revolution is complete

          • He is just baiting you..

            The question is why isn’t this Canadian FYROMESE not living in FYROM instead of Canada, if FYROM is paradise

          • You are the joke. You throw a quotes here and there, with the purpose trying to portray yourself as a subject matter expert – which, by the way, you are not.

            Speaking of quotes…no John Adam one liners today???

            You have been called out in the past, clearly you don’t have the wits to realise that you will only embarrass yourself once again…

      • Germany is just trying to distract the Greeks. Divide and conquer is an old technique. The Germans are happy as long as the rest of Europe keep buying their crap. Funny enough, in the 90′;s they couldn’t even pay their debts

  9. Macedonia is part of Greece, it is in Greece within Greece’s international borders…History can speak if anyone have any doubts other then this…

    • It will happen sooner than you think.The fake bulgarophones are not only stupid they also occupy Albanian land.The ancient illyrians who are the ancestors of the modern Albanians were living in the area that is called Fyrom today.The land is theirs and eventually they will get it.They also multiply much faster than the Fyronians and they also hate them deeply because they treat them appallingly.

      • ali,who is in debt in the tune of 475 billion Euros? Greece cannot pay this debt for more than 60 years.Macedonias unemployement is same as Greece’s today,and Macedonia is independent for the last 26 years.Germans rightfully suggested to Greece to take an example from Macedonia how to cope financially,economically etc You the modern Greeks are cry baby’s,and waiting for handouts to be fed.You obviously have no shame,and John Adams’s description on the Greeks in 1783 was right on the money.If you call that proud,I must tell you I can fly to the moon and back,Hahaha…

        • Agh yes, your famous John Adams one liner…… That’s all you have and just use and use and use it.

          I’ll be sure to contact the John Adams trust and advise them to seek royalties from you

  10. Fact:

    The Jewish Hannuka is about the ‘Greeks’ v’s the Jewish people. The Talmud was even translated into Koine Greek;

    A the G to unify the states created Koine Greek. Modern Greek is the direct derivative of this language;

    The language used by FYROM is a direct derivative of the Slavic languages. The first written appearance of the language was in AUSTRALIA in a newspaper in the 1940’s created by Australian Slavic Linguists!!
    The Slavic wave came in to Greece in the 8th century. Even the ex President Kiro Gligorov of FYROM admitted this . FYROM’s real name is Vardarska;

    A the G was a pagan who travelled as far as India. The language is used today in parts of Greece/Syria and Cyprus; This is why the Cypriots speak Greek and not Slavic.
    Do I need to go on!

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